TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEWEE: Bessie Cornelius (BC)
INTERVIEWER: David Todd (DT)
DATE: October 13, 1999
LOCATION: Beaumont, Texas
TRANSCRIBER: Robin Johnson
TAPES: 2058 and 2059

Please note that videos include roughly 60 seconds of color bars and sound tone for technical settings at the outset of the recordings. Number mark the time marks on VHS copies of the interviews. “Misc.” typically refers to miscellaneous off-camera conversations or background noise.

(misc.)
DT: My name is David Todd and it’s October 13, 1999. I’m here for the Conservation History Association of Texas in Beaumont, Texas and we have the good luck to be visiting with Bessie Cornelius who is a birdwatcher extraordinaire and has been involved in many conservation issues in Texas over the years. We wanted to take this chance at the outset to thank you for spending this time with us.
0:02:01 – 2058
BC: You’re welcome, you’re welcome. I’ve been having a lot of fun doing it.
DT: Well good. Well I’d like to hear about your exploits and maybe we could begin with your early days, your childhood and maybe you could tell us about your parents or other influences that might have interested you in conservation.
0:02:22 – 2058
BC: Well in the early days of conservation, it—I don’t suppose if I was raised—as a child. I don’t—but I was interested in the birds because my father loved the birds and he did. And knew the birds and he was always willing to show—show them to me and always had the time to do it. And so but people ask me how did he learn about the birds and I—I tell—I think there weren’t any books in those days . We were in the country. I went to a one—one-room schoolhouse, schoolroom, school—school. And the—I—I said that I think they learned—learned it from the bird cards that were in the Arm & Hammer Baking Soda boxes.
DT: Really?
0:03:27 – 2058
BC: Yes, and I have one here I can show you.
DT: Okay.
0:03:30 – 2058
BC: And how would that be? Where did I put it? Here it is, right here. Right there.
DT: I see and so that’s how he educated himself about identifying birds?
0:03:44 – 2058
BC: I think so. That was the only way it could have been because he did—he did know all these birds. And then each soda box where the—it seems you get a different—get a different bird. This is a small little card like a playing card and they had a pack if these would be interesting for somebody to see. They were just like this.
DT: Sure, sure. Maybe you could hold it up just a little bit. I see. And tell me more about your father. He was a farmer. Is that right?
0:04:27 – 2058
BC: He was a farmer. He was a farmer.
DT: And did he get involved in any of the early soil conservation work?
0:04:34 – 2058
BC: No, he didn’t.
DT: I see. But did living in the country give you a chance to see more of the outdoors and…
0:04:43 – 2058
BC: Oh yes. I loved the outdoors of course. Uh huh. We lived outdoors. We were kids, you lived outdoors. There was nearly the—there wasn’t any television or radio or anything of that.
DT: Were there any special spots outdoors that you liked to go and visit?
0:05:08 – 2058
BC: Well, I don’t know as there was. I can’t remember of any particular ones.
DT: Maybe we can fast forward a little bit to the 1950’s and I understand that you had gotten married and moved along with your life. But then you had gotten involved in trying to protect a place called Lake Meredith. Could you tell about your work and other people’s work to protect that?
0:05:41 – 2058
BC: That, I do not know too much about really but the was—there was—it was the Mayor of Barker, Texas, small town in the Panhandle. And he had—his name was Meredith and he was anxious for a lake to be produced which he thought it could be by damming the Canadian River. And so, of course, that would take a lot of work and federal intervention. And so he had asked a woman that was in the same building that he was who was head of the Red Cross, Mrs. Johnson, if she would help him, you know, write some letter to do something and so she said she was. She’d see if she could get someone else. And she asked me if I would. And then, I know anything that I thought that I could do was to write a letter to then Senator Kerr from Oklahoma. He had—was Governor Kerr and I worked in his office for two years in the—in—in the—in the legal department. So I—I felt I could write him and ask him what he could do to help. So I don’t know how much good that did but then I called a couple of—of people in the county and think another Congressman. That’s about all that I did actually to that—in that—but later on, it did become a success. The—it was—it was a project of the Bureau of Reclamation and Recreation and that—the—the—the Corps of Engineers, of course, built the dam. Then the—the—the lake now is 100 miles in circumference and they supply water to seven cities including Amarillo.
DT: I see. Later in the 1950’s, I understand that you came to Southeast Texas and made your first visit to High Island. Can you tell about your experience visiting High Island?
0:08:26 – 2058
BC: Well it was—there was—the—it was in the latter part of the ‘50’s and I had met some birdwatchers so that was my reason for going there. And when I first saw the Smith Woods I thought it was the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen. It was really a lovely place.
DT: Can you describe what Smith Woods is?
0:08:53 – 2058
BC: Smith Woods is a—it’s a—it’s 11 ½–about 11 ¼ acres and it’s deciduous, mostly deciduous wood—woodlands. And the oak trees were—were the—was the principal thing and that’s what I noticed. Lots of them there. Some of them 100 years old and they—it—it seemed to be a perfect place for birds. And it certainly was—for the migrating birds.
DT: Is it near the coast?
0:09:32 – 2058
BC: And it’s very close, very close. I’d say probably a mile.
DT: Are there fall-outs there?
0:09:40 – 2058
BC: And of course, in the spring, the—the migrating birds land there after making their trip across the—the Gulf—the Gulf and if there’s—if—if there—they’re tired and hungry and need—need water, they’ll—they’ll just plop right down. And the trees, somewhere or another … they love the Oak trees. But they’re also in that woods. There were pecan trees and there were mulberries and let’s see what else. Well that’s the principal trees there.
DT: Did you see a great variety of birds?
0:10:37 – 2058
BC: The neo-tropical birds. Those that—that have gone to—to the tropics, Mexico and South America, Central America and they come back in the spring for to nest. And they go farther north.
DT: I understand that you visited High Island with a group of birders. Can you describe some of the people that you met through birding?
0:11:08 – 2058
BC: The people I was persuaded to join—didn’t take much persuasion—to join the East Texas Nature Club and a lady by the name of Myra Van Zandt was the President at that time and tried to get people to join and she asked if I would and I did. And I met most of the birders through the East Texas Nature Club. And then the—one of the people that I met and was with for the rest of the time that I’ve been living here was Frances Weir and her daughter, Jenny Weir, they were birdwatchers. And Dr. Weir also. And there was Aileen Bachman, she was a conservationist and she was my—my mentor. She really was.
DT: And what did she teach you about birding?
0:12:17 – 2058
BC: Oh she didn’t teach me anything about birding so much but she—she was about conservation.
DT: I see.
0:12:24 – 2058
BC: She—she—if there was if there was a project, why she would do it. She was into it.
DT: What sort of things was she concerned about?
0:12:35
BC: Well the—one of the—let’s see, I was thinking—one of the things—one of the things that she was concerned about and, of course, it was a concern of the East Texas Nature Club was the Big Thicket. They were really one of the early ones. The people that—the members of the Nature Club were the early people that were anxious to save the Thicket. There had been, I think, over 400,000 acres that they thought should—should be saved. Of course, they ended up with about 80,000 when it was—when it actually was declared a preserve.
DT: Were there other conservation issues in the early days that you met through your circle of friends?
0:13:39 – 2058
BC: Now the, of course, the principal and the—that I—that I was interested in at that time or a little bit later, was the saving of the trees there in High Island. For instance, Smith Woods and Boy Scout Woods. They—we had a—someone told us and I think it was one of the ladies from—that owned the property, that owned Smith Woods, that they were hoping that they could—that their grandchildren would build some houses on that property. And so—but they said that they we were interested in it and they liked to have us there and all that sort of thing. But they wanted us to know that one of those days that they—they were going to do something about that if their grandchildren would build.
DT: Can you talk about the effort to protect High Island?
0:14:57 – 2058
BC: So we—of course, we just talked about it at first but we went to them you see and asked them, you know, to—if there was something that—that we could do to—to save the trees there. And to keep that for the migrating birds. And they said that they would do all that they could. But we knew that the time would come when something would have to—that some—that those ladies would die and we’d have to—somebody would have to do something about it unless—because it would be developed. As it happened, they—the grandchildren care less about building there. They just couldn’t care less about building on there. They—they were—a lot of them left. Most of them left, in fact.
DT: So it came available?
0:16:02 – 2058
BC: So then, at a later date of course, a good many years later, there was an effort to just to buy that property or, of course, we’d like to had the girls give it to some organization like Nature Conservancy or … we tried that and then there was also Ned Fritz with the TCONR [Texas Committee on Natural Resources] and we got him to come down. And we had a meeting. He was down there couple, three times I think and we had a meeting with the girls and there were a couple of them that were willing to do something to—about it. But there were two of them that wouldn’t. There were four girls that owned the property. And so that—that didn’t work. We had Russell Clapper who was of the Tex—of the Anahuac Wildlife Refuge to go over and talk to them. We had—there was a Mrs. Eloise Holland(?), she was a member of the Nature Club and she—her mother was very old at that time had known those girls’ mother and had—was a friend of the mother. So they—we thought well, we’ll take her down there. And we’ll see if she can talk to those girls.
DT: What sort of arguments did they make to…
0:17:56 – 2058
BC: Well they did the—what did they tell…
DT: What sort of things did they tell them to try to persuade them to…
0:18:06 – 2058
BC: To persuade—they said—I’ll tell you what they said. This was—see they knew that the great grandfather there. I guess it was great grandfather, who had planted—originally planted the—the oak trees you see. He—he was the one that originally planted those oaks there. And a lot of the—like the pear trees and the mulberry trees, he planted those too. And they said now wouldn’t you like to have this place—there was an old house there also and maybe we could get somebody to restore this. Wouldn’t you like to have this? It would be named and it would be here forever. That way it would be a place for the birds and a place for the birdwatchers to come. That—that was our argument to them. So then we tried—there was an oilman by the name of Walter Crawford and he wanted to buy it from them. And he talked to them about it but he said that they said—they told him that the price that they told him was too high. So that failed. And we, let’s see who else did we have beside that? We—we—this was Aileen Bachman that was working on this and the—some of the other members of the—the Nature Club and I was there, of course. But I guess that we decided that—that was just hopeless, that we couldn’t do anything about it. But then, in 1986, we were having a Christmas count and we were having our countdown in the motel—motel/restaurant there in High Island. And I—I’d gone. It was just about finished and we were about to leave and I went up to pay my bill and there was a man sitting there, I don’t know whether I should say this or not, he was a little tipsy but anyway, I said—he said are you with the Audubon Society and I said yes. He said, well do you know that I am one of the heirs to the—by that time, quite a few of the ladies had died. There was, let’s see, Miss—Mrs. Bowland had died and Mrs. Stanley had died. And he said, I want—and I’m one of the heirs of the Stanley family that own ¼ of the property there. And he said, I have quite—quite a bit of influence on the rest of the family and he said, I’d like to sell. And he said, do you know if the Audubon Society would like to buy it? And I said, you’re just in luck because the President of the Houston Audubon Society is here on this bird count. And I said, he’s standing right over there. You go right over there and talk to him. And that was Ted Eubanks. That was 1986. And, you know, Ted just set that right up. And so…
DT: So it took almost thirty years from the late ‘50’s to 1986 to secure that?
0:22:02 – 2058
BC: Yeah, yes sir. It sure did. Uh huh. It sure did.
DT: You mentioned the East Texas Nature Club. Can you talk about what its focus was?
0:22:18 – 2058
BC: The focus of that was—it was actually called the East Texas Study Club in the beginning. And it was to study the birds and all the natural surroundings and to interest the young people and I think that they did. I think they really had a lot of success at it. It was—they did a lot of things. They were, as I said, did I tell you that they were interested—got in Terrell(?) Park—I didn’t tell you about that? No, about the City Park in the Southeast part of the city, in the—during the Depression during the—they had the CCC [Civilian Conservation Corps] boys out there working and they—the Nature Club would advise them as to what plants to keep and what they were all labeled and they were—things of that nature.
DT: They were interested in plants and birds…
0:23:32 – 2058
BC: Plants and the birds and that. And so they were a great help to the city in keeping the right things out there and not destroying the native plants, for instance. Then…
DT: Were they mostly interested in nature study and appreciation or did they get involved in more controversial issues of protection?
0:23:58 – 2058
BC: Well, I guess if there was a controversial interest or any kind of an issue that nature if it did concern nature, they were interested. Yeah, if it concerned nature.
DT: Do you remember any of the events they got involved in?
0:24:16 – 2058
BC: In that beside that. Well there was a controversy over—of—over a piece of land in Beaumont called the Delaware Street Park or some people called it the TB [Tuberculosis] Hospital Park. It was 11 ¼ acres. No, no, it was—it was 22 acres and it was in—boy what does—what was often referred to as the middle of town and it—a lovely piece of ground. And the TB Hospital had been situated there in the old days and then when that became obsolete, they—it was just used as a park. And the City kept up—kept it up part of the time and the County kept it up part of the time and it was sort of a difficult situation there as to who was going to do the work. But they had a chance to sell it to the—to, let me see, I was trying to get—to—well I can’t remember who it was I can’t remember who it was but I’ll remember in a few. Had a chance to sell it and the people are going to buy it—the organization that was going to buy it was going to keep it intact, keep the woods and there was a lot of pine trees on there. There were lots of deciduous trees. There was beautiful flowers in there, native flowers and the—some of the garden clubs in town had planted azaleas and but anyway, that was going to—so they—they sold it to them for a long period—long lease it was. And at the—at the—but then they had a chance to get a piece of property downtown, some lots that were going to be given to them so they could build their building there. And so they were going to do that and give up this property and the City was going to sell that property to a developer. And so that is when the Nature Club thought that that was a shame to lose that. And I wrote a little article in the paper to (?) readers and I said that there—it wouldn’t be long before we were going to hear the chainsaws, you know, going and were going to—the—the trees were all going to be cut down and the—they’re going to put up a business complex there of some type. And so there was a lawyer in town by the name of Lindsay Walker(?) and Lindsay said that his wife was reading the paper and she read that little article and she said, Lindsay,
0:27:56
are you going to allow this to happen? And he said, he read it and he said, well I’ll see what I can do about it. And so he—he called me and I told him who the President was. It was a woman by the name of Mamie Agafort(?) and I told him and he said well she lives right close to me. I’ll just go over and see her. And he came to our next meeting and he offered to—to help us if we wanted to save that property. And then there was another man by the name of Hal Owens and he had an office close to Lindsay’s and that between the two of them and the Nature Club, with all of us working as hard as we could, we got an election, a referendum election. And that took a lot of work. It took petitions, you know, and it took just a lot of work to do it. And we—at the election we thought, you know, that we were really going to lose. We really didn’t think that we could—because we were up against the—this Art—that was—it was an Art, whatever you call it, give me some help.
DT: An art museum?
0:29:11 – 2058
BC: Uh huh, yes, the Art Museum. That was it. The Beaumont Art Museum and that was the—there were lots of people that were very rich people that belonged to it and here—here we were a poor little club and we—we didn’t have $500 in our Treasury. And but—but people came to our rescue. They did give us money. They really gave us money. Even some of the people that were in the Art Museum Club gave us. They really—they didn’t approve it. They wanted to stay out here with—under the trees and all. They didn’t want to go downtown to—to—but anyway, we with all the—we—they could advertise, you know. And they could advertise on TV and the paper and we couldn’t because we didn’t have the money to do it and so, of course, we did think that we’d lost the election. We did—but we—it was a hot day in the—in August, a very—and on a Saturday when there aren’t too many people around to go to the polls. But we won by 60%. We got 60% of the vote and it was a big vote, turned up. So that was our—that was a big project for us.
DT: Did you often find that the Nature Club and your friends were in the minority trying to press for conservation?
0:30:51 – 2058
BC: Oh in the minority, of course we were. We—we were—we were certainly in the minority.
DT: Why do you think that was that people didn’t see it your way often?
0:31:06 – 2058
BC: Well I don’t know. I think that, at that time, people weren’t too interested, you know, in conservation. They didn’t realize, I guess, what was going to happen.
DT: Well you said that you circulated petitions to get the referendum, what would people say when you would come up to them and say…
(talking at same time)
0:31:31 – 2058
To the door, we would go around to the door, you know. We had…
DT: What sort of reaction would you get?
0:31:38 – 2058
BC: Well on the—on the petitions by some—for some reason, we did have a good result. I don’t know whether it was they felt sorry for the little ole ladies that came up to the door and said, “Will you please sign my petition,” or what. I don’t know why but we got the—we got enough, you know, we got enough signatures so that we could have the election.
DT: Did the Study Club get interested or involved in any of the water pollution or air pollution problems from industry and so on or was it more of a wildlife, habitat group?
0:32:22 – 2058
BC: Okay here was the thing … that if there was, like the Clean Water and Air organization, if they wanted help from us, we always gave anyone help that was interested in any of those things.
DT: Earlier we were talking about Smith Woods and High Island and you mentioned the Christmas count and I’m curious if you could tell about the history of the Christmas count in Beaumont?
0:32:53 – 2058
BC: Well Dr. Graber was the one that—that ran the Christmas counts and I asked him one day when he star—I said I think that I started going to your Christmas counts in 1960 and he said, well that sounds about like—about the time that I started it. And I went to every one, even last year, except one and we had a hard freeze and there had been weather and the—our pipes froze and I didn’t want to go. I went to all of them.
DT: How does a Christmas count work for those who haven’t been on one?
0:33:33 – 2058
BC: Well they put you in a group and then you just follow the leader and he’ll tell you what to do.
DT: And they give you a little territory to go…
0:33:42 – 2058
BC: They give you a territory, uh huh. I always had the west—west oil fields in High Island. But they—the big thing that I did in High Island, I think, was after we acquired the Boy Scout Woods, they wanted to raise money to maintain those. They had Boy Scout Woods and they had Smith Oaks. They renamed it from Smith Woods, Smith Oaks and they decided that they had to have some money so maybe we could make a little money on letting people—charging people to come in there but people didn’t like that very well. The first two years, ’87 and ’88, we passed the hat around, you know, and when they were standing there, say at Boy Scout Woods, and looking over the pond and watching the birds come in there and bathe, that was the migrating birds, and maybe feed (?), you know, dash out and get a bug or so and go up and get a mulberry and so we felt well now, those people are having a good time. Now maybe we could pass the hat. And there was a Mr. Perky and he had been very helpful in fixing a lot of things around there, digging out the pond, putting in—putting up signs and so forth. And so I said—I said why don’t you pass the hat. And he said, well I’ll give you my hat if you’ll pass it. So…
DT: Team effort?
0:35:32 – 2058
BC: Yeah, yeah so—and so I passed the hat around and they didn’t like it. They really didn’t like it.
DT: What would people say?
0:35:42 – 2058
BC: Well just kind of, you know, turned their head. So I thought, well I don’t know, I collected—collected about $2.50 from about twenty-five people. So but I didn’t give up. I said well we’ll try it again, you know, so the next week, the weekends are the best and we’d try it again. But so the Houston Audubon Society did, I suppose the directors, I don’t know who it was then, decided that they would have a … put on a … some sort of a show to—what they—didn’t know whether they knew exactly what they were going to do in the beginning but they—they had one—some, let’s see, I think it was Ted Eubanks that was banding birds and people would come up and look at it, you know. And the kids loved it especially. And they—and then another thing, we had a bookstore from Houston and they came and brought all their books and their equipment, you know, and their binoculars and all and had a big tent, made it like a—sort of like a show.
DT: This is the Chickadee?
0:37:15 – 2058
BC: Chickadee. Uh huh. That was it. So that was—that was kind of successful. And so we asked people if they would donate something for their coming in and we raised quite a little bit of money with that but then the second year, that was ’88, that we had the idea that maybe if we could sell a patch. And I have one of the patches here. And we’ve had—it’s a patch that we had made and they—it’s—we have a different one every year and there’s a different warbler on there every year. The first year it was the—well I’ll remember what it is. I just had one in the yard last night. Anyway, the—and you get—so ’89, that was our first year to sell the patch and it was very successful. It was very successful. We raised—stayed there—I stayed there every day, it was five days a week and then there’s a, Pat Rankin(?), she stayed three days. And that’s the way we started. And later on, we had a lot of volunteers. But the—we raised $10,000 that first year. $10,000 from two dollars and a half, passing the hat. You see.
DT: Why do you think it’s been so difficult to raise money for something people clearly enjoy doing?
0:39:58 – 2058
BC: I have no idea why they could—why—they said—one of the reasons they said, well this is—I belong to Audubon Society, see, so I should get in free. And then others said well, this is a public park, you know. It’s a public place. I don’t know why I should pay and then what other—I guess that was about—they—they just didn’t want to pay. But after we got the patch, and told them, now we have to keep this place up. We have to keep the restrooms going and we have to keep the place clean and all that sort of thing, they sort of got the idea and now we—we don’t have any trouble at all.
DT: You mentioned there were maintenance issues at High Islands and Smith Woods. Could you talk about some of the tree planting and other work that went on there over the years?
0:40:01 – 2058
BC: Well the tree planting and the Houston Audubon Society have a sanctuary manager and they always took charge of the tree planting and they would get volunteers and—from the—the Society, Audubon Society and that’s—that’s where I got my volunteers on the—on Boy Scout Woods. All those and also got most of them there I’d say but I also got them through the East Texas Nature Club.
DT: You’ve been a volunteer for many years and you’ve recruited other volunteers and I suppose many of these non-profit groups depend on volunteers. Can you explain what makes a volunteer like yourself give your time to these things?
0:40:55 – 2058
BC: I don’t know. Really I just love to do it. It seems to me I get more out of it than I give.
DT: What is it that you get out of volunteering for conservation?
0:41:07 – 2058
BC: Well in—one thing I do, of course, is that I feel that I’m doing it for the birds. That’s my—I feel that I’m a part of maybe just a little part of helping to save them, you know, because we have a place there for them. We keep—we have the mulberry trees where they can plop down and get a—something to eat right away after their long trip over the Gulf from the Yucatan. And they have water there. And that’s—it’s certainly a big drawing card for the birds. That’s the one place where they’ll come to water first if they’re real tired.
DT: You’ve been birding at High Island and Smith Woods and Boy Scout Woods for many years. Can you tell about some of the differences, the kinds of birds you’ve seen and the numbers of individuals?
0:42:15 – 2058
BC: Now the—the birds have declined. There’s no doubt about it. There’s just—in the—let’s say from 1960 to this—now almost 2000, they—there have—they have just declined, unbelievable.
DT: Can you give some examples?
0:42:38 – 2058
BC: Well I can give you an example about—about our Christmas counts. On—you were just looking over my notebooks, I found that one—one year we had 300 Meadowlarks. Another year we had 100 Meadowlarks and now if we see 4 or 5 Meadowlarks, it’s—we’re lucky. So that’s certainly a, you know, a tremendous difference. There’s also, there’s a difference in, let me see, let me think, for instance, the Bobolinks, we just don’t see very many Bobolinks anymore where we used to see a good number of them, good flock. It would be a flock, you know, like 25 or 30 in a flock maybe. Now just maybe one or two.
DT: Why do you think there’s been a change?
0:43:35 – 2058
BC: Well I think there’s been a change because of a lot of things. I think the habitat has been messed up and I think that pesticides, herbicides, all of the pollution, air pollution, water pollution, has all affected the birds, you see.
DT: You mentioned pesticides. I’m curious if you read Rachel Carson’s book when it first came out?
0:44:07 – 2058
BC: I did. That—it’s one of the books that I did right in the beginning and Earth Day and all this started.
DT: What sort of influence did her writing have…
0:44:17 – 2058
BC: Well it was just—it was amazing. It was amazing when she—about the things she would tell about. About the Robins who had been killed, you know, with a heavy dose of pesticide. So I think she had a great influence on people, her book and various books that she wrote. Uh huh.
DT: Well do you remember people in your Study Club talking about her work and her concerns?
0:44:55 – 2058
BC: Well, of course, they were all aware of her, of course, and many people read the book. I don’t know how many.
DT: Did you see evidence of what she was concerned about…
0:45:07 – 2058
BC: Oh I think she had a great influence. I really do so on—on a lot of people.
DT: I understand that you also participated in the backyard bird count for Cornell…
0:45:26 – 2058
BC: Well I just did that—last year was the first time I did that.
DT: How did that work? How do you participate?
0:45:33 – 2058
BC: Well you get, you know, you have a—just count the birds during one day period or, let me see now if I can remember what that was—I think we had went three days if I remember. No that wasn’t it. It was just one day probably.
DT: What sort of birds do you usually see?
0:45:57 – 2058
BC: Did I see here? Oh well in the wintertime I have a pretty good list of birds. I have Cardinals, Blue Jays, of course, and the—let me see now, Cardinals, Blue Jays, Blackbirds, Grackles, all of the trash birds. But beside that we got Chickadees and we got the—Chickadees and what’s the other one, (?), then we got oh I wish you wouldn’t ask me to list birds right off the bat, the Flicker and…
DT: Does a Flicker have a special meaning for you? Is that a special bird for you?
0:47:03 – 2058
BC: Well I—it is because it was the first bird that I saw through binoculars.
DT: When was that?
0:47:10 – 2058
BC: It was in 1926 and I had grad—we just graduated from high school and my friend’s father who had a pair binoculars, probably the only pair in town in this little village in Minnesota and he said that we could—he liked to watch birds too—so he said that we could borrow those for the—if we were very careful. So we went—we went toward the edge of town and sat there a while in the woods and looked around and there was this bird. We looked at it and it was a Flicker. And we looked at it through the binoculars for quite a long time. That was the first bird.
DT: Did you have any sense in 1926, looking at the Flicker through your binoculars that this was going to be a lifelong interest?
0:48:08 – 2058
BC: Oh I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t think so.
DT: I understand that you mentioned that you see Flickers here in your backyard. Have there been ways that you’ve drawn in the Flickers and the Grackles and the Bluebirds and…
0:48:31 – 2058
BC: Well I throw seed out on the patio and seed back in the bushes and the bamboos and I feed them. I feed the birds.
DT: What sort of things do you feed them?
0:48:48 – 2058
BC: I feed them some small grain and the—the black oil seed.
DT: Do they like sandwiches?
0:48:57 – 2058
BC: Oh yes they do, of course. I also have this little wire box feeder and I put in—I make a peanut butter sandwich, cut it up in squares and stuff it in there and they’re there.
DT: Have you planted any particular plants that…
0:49:21 – 2058
BC: Oh yeah, I tried to—I try to plant, of course, a bird—flowers, native plants. Native plants are more important than anything because the birds know of the native plants, you know, the flowers. And, for the hummingbirds, I have, for instance here, I have a—now what’s that called—do you know?
DT: Is that a kind of salvia maybe?
0:49:54 – 2058
BC: Uh no, the salvia—yeah, here’s some salvia right there. See the little red stuff? That is salvia. Uh huh. And, you know, the thing—I think you do know this. Then I have, let’s see the salvia and this—oh heck, why can’t I remember. This is a Turk’s Cap. Now they love this. The hummingbirds love this and also I have a little—there’s a little tortoise that comes around and eats—it’ll eat those when they fall on the ground.
DT: Really?
0:50:32 – 2058
BC: Yeah. And they belong to Richard over here. Richard.
DT: Do you also provide water for birds?
0:50:40 – 2058
BC: Yeah I have a fountain. Uh huh. Or—it’s a drippy—a dripper. And what else do I do? I have two kinds of—of this. There’s the other. That’s a native over there. But this is somebody gave it to me; I planted it and it just grew. And it blooms in the fall so that’s a good thing.
DT: Your backyard attracts a variety of birds but it also appeals to what you called trash birds. What do you mean by a trash bird?
0:51:21 – 2058
BC: Well the trash birds to me are the Starlings in the first place and now the Grackles and the—and the House Sparrow.
DT: These are exotic birds mostly?
0:51:33 – 2058
BC: Well they’re—let’s see—now the Starling and the Sparrow are—are—were imported. They were brought over here from England.
DT: Why have they become so…
0:51:49 – 2058
BC: Trash birds?
DT: Abusive and…
0:51:51 – 2058
BC: I think just because there are too many of them. It’s just like people. If there are just too many people in one place why they become obnoxious. That’s the way I think. Overpopulation.
DT: You were talking earlier how birds are very territorial, that they try and keep their own populations down within their own little feeding area. Can you explain that a little more?
0:52:23 – 2058
BC: Well I think that the birds, for instance, the Red Belly Woodpeckers, say, I have quite a few of them around here and especially in the summertime and they — they’ll — they’ll run off the babies after they’re grown and because the parents are—this is the parent’s home and this is their territory and they’re going to keep it for themselves and they’ll tell the babies, go out and get your own homes. See. And I don’t know that—that’s what I call territorial.
DT: Talking about population in terms of birds, do you see that as being a problem for our own species?
0:53:14 – 2058
BC: Well I think so because they, for instance, the Starling have taken over the dead trees where the Woodpeckers have pecked out a hole in there to—for nesting purposes and the Starling being more aggressive just runs them off and takes the hole for themselves. That’s a good example.
(misc.)
DT: Can you tell a little bit about your other effort to protect some of the native habitat of—I understand that you are aware of the work to protect Bolivar Flats and could you say why that’s an important place?
0:54:09 – 2058
BC: Well it’s an important place because the migratory shore birds, for instance, are—come in there and a lot of them stay all winter. And that is the—it’s a tidal flat and the little creatures, crustaceans and so forth that are washed up, then the shore birds come along and dig—dig them out and they have a meal. And so they feed there and they rest there and they come—they start coming in August and they’ll stay, a lot of them, they’ll stay till the spring migration again in the spring.
DT: What sort of birds do you see out there?
0:55:01 – 2058
BC: You—you see the—the gulls and the terns, the pelicans, the Willets, Turnstones. You see the—the—all of the peeps are out there. The—the long—Long-billed Curlew and Knots, almost any kind of a shore bird that you could think of would be there.
DT: Have you seen any changes in the kinds of birds or the numbers of birds that you’ve seen there over the years?
0:55:38 – 2058
BC: Well I—it seems to me that the shore birds are diminishing also but not as rapidly. I don’t believe—that’s my idea because see I can go down there and see an awful lot of big shore birds almost any time the—during the year.
DT: I understand that some of the shore birds like the pelican have recovered pretty significantly.
0:56:05 – 2058
BC: Oh yes, that really has. That really has because—especially on the Texas—Texas coast. Texas and Louisiana coast. When we first came here in ’56, you could go down there and you could see the pelicans all lined up on the—on the pilings and say right there at the ferry and then that was—you could just go any place and see them. There were lots of Brown Pelicans but after—after a while—that was the—they were using DDT there and before that was banned the—it would be—pelicans began to just—Brown Pelican began to disappear. And the—the reason for that was, they learned later, was that the DDT was des—destroying the—it eventually ran off from the farmer—the farm into the streams and then streams into the Gulf and the—it—and the eggs—the shell of the eggs was very thin and the bird—the birds would be killed, you know, before they could hatch. So—but they—after they had all disappeared from this coast and they didn’t—it was just the demise of the—from Louisiana also and also the West Coast, on the Pacific Coast, and they—but, for some reason, that did not happen, at least not to that extent in—on—or Florida Coast. So they got eggs and birds and brought them back here. What—what actually the—devised a whole bunch here was after the Hurricane Carla and when that—that took place and then you never saw another brown pelican but—so they decided that they were just gone from the Gulf Coast. So they brought in those birds and eggs and at an island, I think it was off of—some place off of—around Corpus Christi. And they had—they started up—to replenish them and they were very successful. It was a—it was Fish & Wildlife I believe and maybe dedicated people.
DT: Speaking of islands, maybe we can talk about some of the rookeries that Audubon has been able to protect. I understand there was one at Sydney Island and other places along…
0:59:15 – 2058
BC: Oh yeah, Sydney Island, the National Audubon Society acquired that after a good deal of work the East Texas Nature Club was instrumental in that—in helping there. And we had—had—did acquire it. That was a lot of work, lot of work on everybody’s part.
DT: What do one of these rookery islands look like?
0:59:43 – 2058
BC: What do they look like?
DT: What sort of birds do you see?
0:59:46 – 2058
BC: Oh what sort of birds? Well, there’s all the—there’s the Great Egrets and the Snowy Egret and the Cattle Egret. There’s the—one of the best things is the Roseate Spoonbills are there. There’s the Cormorants and Skimmers, just about any kind of a bird that you want to think of that are shore birds. Long-legg—long-legged waders. All of the long-leggeds.
DT: And they lay their eggs and raise their young or…
1:00:18 – 2058
BC: Yeah right there. Uh huh. And if—if it’s given protection usually don’t—there’s not any habitation, human habitation on it. There’s just a small island and the—however, on Sydney Island there was a human habitat. Some man—Sydney—this man, Sydney, had built a little home there and so—but he didn’t bother the birds, the birds didn’t bother him. The only thing was the fishermen would come along and—but…
DT: What would the fishermen do?
1:00:56 – 2058
BC: Well the fisher—some of the fishermen would take the baby birds out of the nest and use them for bait I’m sorry to say. That’s right.
(misc.)
DT: Bessie, you were telling me about an earlier story of trying to protect the woods and passing out petitions. Could you…
0:00:56 – 2059
BC: Tell you that again? Yeah. We were standing at—it was a—it was on the—Friday I think, Friday or Saturday. Anyway, we were standing in the front of Kroger’s grocery store and planting—passing out fliers and said, have a—vote—vote tomorrow and wanted to say a few words to the people that would come along and so there was one that came out and I knew it and I was going to give him a flier. He smiled at me and he was kind of threw his hands out and said, I should have you girls arrested.
DT: This was about the Delaware…
0:01:31 – 2059
BC: Yeah Delaware Street Park and we were trying to save the trees—trees there and we were, of course, working hard to—setting out there all day wasn’t any fun, you know.
DT: Were you allowed to stand out in front of other grocery stores?
0:01:50 – 2059
BC: No the other—the—Kroger’s was the only grocery store in the town that we—that we had approached—that we—we asked them all if they would let us do it.
DT: What did the others tell you?
0:02:03 – 2059
BC: Well they just didn’t think it would be good business. It was—you see they didn’t want to rile up a man like the one that told us he was going to have us arrested.
DT: We’ve talked about your love of birds and I understand that it took you not just to places like High Island and Bolivar Flats and other places on the Texas Coast but it has taken you around the world…
0:02:35 – 2059
BC: Yes, I got to—well 31 countries, maybe 33 countries, it depends on how they—yeah, you can count some of them.
DT: I hear that you’ve been on canoe trips and dugout trips, can you tell about some of the adventures in some of these?
0:02:58 – 2059
BC: Well we were in Ecuador—we were in a little dugout boat. It was a pretty long one though. Anyway there were quite a few people in it and Francis Weir, one of our conservationists and a birdwatcher was there and her daughter, Jenny. And we—one of the birds that we were looking for—this—it was a little—just a little late and one of the birds we were looking for throughout this whole trip was the—the Harpy Eagle and we started out and had gone just a little ways across the—the end of the lake and all at once Jenny said, “Well oh I believe that’s a Harpy Eagle.” She knew and so, of course, Victor Emanuel, he was—he was at the front of the boat and he—he stopped right away and oh boy, was he excited and sure enough, it was. And the—the bird flew and the Harpy Eagle flew across the lake and we—we had wonderful looks at it. That was a wonderful bird to see because of the scarcity and—and the—the immensity of it. And also some of its habits—it eats monkeys or—so that’s its main food.
DT: It sounds like birding and your interest in protecting birds has taken you to the far ends of the world. Can you say why it’s been so important to you?
0:04:50 – 2059
BC: Well I just love—love birds. That’s all you can say because we’ve asked other people that. Almost everyone say that. I don’t know why people do love birds. It’s—it’s sort of a question, you know. It’s maybe because they have a lot more freedom than we do. That may be the answer. I—I like them because of their—a lot of them are so—they’re just beautiful things, beautiful feathers, beautiful colors. And in their—their—things they do and the—I don’t know. I just like them.
DT: Are there some unusual things they do that you enjoy watching?
0:05:41 – 2059
BC: Well can’t think of any just now that you asked me.
DT: Are there any sort of pet birds that you’re particularly fond of or do you like them all?
0:05:54 – 2059
BC: I like them all I think that’s—it’s probably—still probably the trash birds.
(misc.)
DT: We often ask people what are their favorite places to go in the out-of-doors that they enjoy the most.
0:06:12 – 2059
BC: You mean the countries or…
DT: Sure.
0:06:15 – 2059
BC: Well I—I think the country that I enjoyed the most because of the birds, it has such a wealth of birds because there are so many birds, was Australia. Australia and the—Australia and Tasmania, those two—those are two of the large country that—country there.
DT: Were there particular places there that were very beautiful?
0:06:38 – 2059
BC: And oh yes, there certainly were. There were—were—were many places of course. The west coast of Australia is very interesting and the town of, for instance, the City of Perth has enormous botanical gardens and the—there—of course, the birds there were just more birds than you can think of. They were there just wild, you know. So then also Mongolia—Outer Mongolia was another place that was interesting. Yeah. And that was a trip that we went on with the Massachusetts Audubon Society. We went to Moscow and then St. Petersburg and then we took this long plane ride and go to Siberia. And Siberia was interesting. The—it was a little too early or a little bit cold but we went on to Mongolia, Outer Mongolia, and there we stayed in yurts which is a—I guess everyone knows what a yurt is. It’s sort of a tent. It’s really a beautiful tent and you—at least, well that’s where we slept and they had a—another large, large yurt that they had for a dining room. So anyway the—and—the Gobi Desert was interesting and there we saw the Lamagards, it’s a—it’s an eagle and they’re—and there—that’s always a bird that birdwatchers want to see is the Lamagard. And there were—there were quite a few in the Altai Mountains and there were great herds of sheep and cattle and these cowboys, these Gobi cowboys would come riding down and the thing of it, they were going to—to take our camp, we were camping, camped out there. And that—not yurts but little tents and that was sort of an adventure to me, you know. And then we had a trip up into the Altai—Altai Mountains and the way up along some of the frozen ridges to see the—the Snowcock. That was a bird that we—everyone wanted to see but I didn’t get up that far. But El—but Jenny Hughey(?) did and she saw it. She said briefly. But the Gobi Desert was very interesting. It was the—lots more birds than you think it would have and then, of course, they were all different than our birds and they were—it was—we got lost in the desert at one time. No one seemed to mind the—no one seemed to care whether we were lost or not. And—but that was an interesting trip. Very interesting.
DT: I understand you’ve amassed a bird list of over 3000 birds in your lifetime…
0:10:35 – 2059
BC: Yeah. Yeah 3000 birds. But that’s really not very many, you know, according to—to the birdwatchers today.
(misc.)
DT: Can you say that there are threats that these birds face again and again?
(misc.)
0:11:11 – 2059
BC: Oh you mean if—I don’t really understand.
DT: Do you see problems that these birds face around the world?
0:11:18 – 2059
BC: Oh that they are—that they’re disappearing, right? You mean…
DT: Yeah.
0:11:23 – 2059
BC: Oh I should say so. The whole—the—the birds of the world are—are disappearing.
DT: Why do you think that is?
0:11:32 – 2059
BC: Well I—I think it’s because of our—I think it’s too many people and that the pesticides that we’re using and I think it’s because of the many other things that we’re doing that is harming the human population and also the bird population. And smoke and the air pollution.
DT: With all these daunting problems, do you have words of advice to people who may carry on from what you’ve been doing?
0:12:21 – 2059
BC: Well I certainly advise people to—to get into conservation if they can. They—conservation of all sorts especially I think we need to conserve the habitat for the birds and other wildlife. And I believe that that’s the most important thing and I think that anyone that wants to get into it will get much more out of it than they put into it. I certainly did.
DT: Well thank you for giving so much through the years and today with us. Thanks very much.
0:12:56 – 2059
BC: Well thank you too. I’ve enjoyed it.
END of tape 2059
END of interview with Bessie Cornelius