Conservation History Association of Texas
Texas Legacy Project
Oral History Interview
Nature Conservancy in Texas

Interviewee: Dan Snodgrass
Date: June 8, 2022
Site: San Antonio, Texas
Reels: 3722-3724
Executive Producer: Lydia Saldana
Producer: Jeff Weigel
Field Producer / Chief Interviewer: Lee Smith
Videographer: Curtis Craven
Writer / Editor: Ron Kabele
Transcriber: David Todd / Trint
Item: Snodgrass_Dan_NCItem29_SanAntonioTX_20220608_Reel3722-3724_Audio.mp3

[Bracketed numbers refer to the time code for the interview recording.]

Lee Smith [00:00:16] So where did you grow up?

Dan Snodgrass [00:00:18] So I grew up in Brownfield, Texas, out in the southern High Plains, about 40 miles southwest of Lubbock.

Lee Smith [00:00:26] And did you go to high school there and then where do you go after that?

Dan Snodgrass [00:00:32] I did. I grew up there in Brownfield, went to school there my entire life, and then I went to college at Texas Tech.

Lee Smith [00:00:39] Surprise.

Dan Snodgrass [00:00:40] Surprise.

Lee Smith [00:00:44] And what did you study there, and where did you go after that?

Dan Snodgrass [00:00:47] So I started off in going to Tech, studying biology. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to do something in wildlife, but I didn’t frankly know that there was such a thing. And then I found out that there was a Range and Wildlife Management program at Tech. And so I entered that and studied there and graduated from Tech with a degree in Range and Wildlife Management.

Lee Smith [00:01:11] And then what?

Dan Snodgrass [00:01:13] And then after that, I started working. I spent some time working for Texas Parks and Wildlife Department as a intern and spent several seasons doing that. I was not able to get on a full-time position with Parks and Wildlife Department. But then I went to work for Halliburton actually for several months, close to a year. Did that, didn’t like it.

Dan Snodgrass [00:01:36] Wanted to get back into wildlife or conservation and went to Texas Tech to visit with one of my old professors and literally, literally a story where the phone rang and he says, “Hey, how about the Nature Conservancy?” I said, “Well, I don’t know. I’ve never, I don’t even know what the Nature Conservancy is.”.

Dan Snodgrass [00:01:56] But that story was a gentleman that used to work for us named John Bergan, had called this professor and was on the other line. And from there I did an interview and that was at our Texas City Prairie Preserve, flew down and did an interview and started working for the Nature Conservancy then.

Lee Smith [00:02:14] Did you ever meet Chip Ruthven?

Dan Snodgrass [00:02:16] I have met Chip ruthven. I have.

Lee Smith [00:02:18] We were on the same football team.

Dan Snodgrass [00:02:20] Really? Well, we have our Yoakum Dunes preserve up there and he’s the, I forget his title, the area manager or whatever he is. And so we have an easement on that property that we go up to and monitor every year. And so he’s been up several times. And so I’ve met Chip a number of times over the years.

Lee Smith [00:02:38] Good man.

Lee Smith [00:02:40] So just kind of go back to your childhood. Was there a time on the High Plains when the wind was blowing that…

Dan Snodgrass [00:02:51] Of course.

Lee Smith [00:02:53] That you kind of went, “Nature is something that’s, you know, speaking to me.”

Dan Snodgrass [00:03:04] Yeah. So I, probably like a lot of kids at that time, I grew up riding my bike, all day, every day. There were two sets of trails that we called them. We call them the little trails and the big trails. The big trails were a little bit further from my house, but it was a, a pond. And down by that pond in the fall, in the winter, held sandhill cranes, Canada geese, ducks. And so I used to ride my bike down there all the time and watch the, watch the ducks come in, and watch the geese come in. There were snakes down there in the summertime, and so I just thoroughly enjoyed that and knew that I liked being outdoors and and being in nature.

Lee Smith [00:03:48] Was it a playa or not?

Dan Snodgrass [00:03:51] No, it’s not really a playa. It was really more of a drainage pond in the town, so it was always wet. It always had water. And at that time it was much more wild than it is now. It’s been more developed and it’s more park-like now. But as a kid, it was pretty wild down there, so it was a fun place to go and creep around in the in the wild around Brownsville, Texas.

Lee Smith [00:04:15] Was there a family member or a mentor that you had at that time that was inspiring you at all to nature?

Dan Snodgrass [00:04:22] Well, I had a, one of, my oldest brother who’s nine years older than I am. He was hunting and he used to go hunt quail and he enjoyed the outdoors and spending and spending time outdoors. So I would you know, I always thought that was a really cool thing to do. And, you know, I liked doing it. I liked being outdoors. And, you know, I was too young to hunt at the time. But so I really kind of looked up to him and thought that was really neat, what he did. So that really was part of my interest in wildlife and hunting and the outdoors was, you know, so I kind of looked to my oldest brother to kind of follow in his footsteps, so to speak.

Lee Smith [00:05:01] Were you, did he make you his bird dog?

Dan Snodgrass [00:05:05] I did. We did go on a few trips and, you know, a shotgun that I still have today was one of his. And so did go on a few trips with him, but, you know, really respected that he enjoyed it. And, you know, probably at the time I wanted to be more like him than I was thinking about conservation or wildlife. But I certainly knew that I enjoyed the outdoors. So.

Lee Smith [00:05:27] What about in your education? Was there a teacher or a classmate or a counselor or something that maybe…

Dan Snodgrass [00:05:38] Well, yeah, I was. So when I first started going to Tech, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do for sure. I knew it was something outdoors or biological.

Dan Snodgrass [00:05:48] So I ended up taking an Intro to Wildlife Management class or Introduction to Wildlife. Just got on a whim, as an elective. And the professor was a guy named John Hunter. And, you know, I just really fell in love with it. He made the class fun and I learned so much. And from that point on, I thought, “Well, shoot, this is a an actual thing I can get a degree in and study.” So he was someone who I really looked up to and I think kind of put me on the path that I got on.

Lee Smith [00:06:23] Was there anything in popular culture? And when I say popular culture, it doesn’t have to mean, you know, top ten radio stuff. But was there anything like any books or magazines or a movie that kind of got you fired up?

Dan Snodgrass [00:06:39] Well, I’d you know, I watched Mutual of Omaha a lot as a kid. Marty Stouffer, a television series. So I really loved all that stuff. And again, I didn’t really know one could do that for a career, but I thought those were the coolest jobs ever. So that’s that’s what I’d say.

Lee Smith [00:07:02] I always thought the segues in Mutual of Omaha were, you know, this is the beaver, it builds a dam to protect his family.

Dan Snodgrass [00:07:12] Right. Right. Right.

Lee Smith [00:07:15] Anyway, so what was your first involvement in conservation work?

Dan Snodgrass [00:07:23] Well, probably my first position, it was while I was in college and I went to work for a graduate student who was studying nest parasitism with brown-headed cowbirds. So I spent a summer in Raton, New Mexico. His project was on the NRA’s Whittington Center, so I spent all summer roaming around that property looking for bird nests and looking to see if cowbirds had parasitized those nests. So that was my real first job in conservation.

Lee Smith [00:07:55] And what was that like? Going walking around the desert with a ladder or something and peer into nests?

Dan Snodgrass [00:08:00] Yeah. No, it literally was. We spent all day walking around in the woods and into the mountains up there and trying to find nests. And if we did find them, yeah, looking into the nest and seeing if there was cowbird eggs in there.

Lee Smith [00:08:13] Did you use, like, a mirror on a?

Dan Snodgrass [00:08:15] We did have we did have a an extension pole with a mirror on the end of it that you could, you know, raise up there and look in there and see. And of course a lot of them were low enough where you could actually see. So.

Lee Smith [00:08:28] I bet you actually also encountered a lot of ancillary stuff, you know, trooping around and looking for that. You’ll see a whole bunch of other things.

Dan Snodgrass [00:08:36] Absolutely. Yeah. That was one of the best parts about it was, you know, looking around, trying to find the birds. But the elk population in that area would come down into the valleys in the summertime. And so there were huge herds of elk, so we’d be roaming around the woods and, you know, up ahead of us, there’d be 150 or so elk passing in front. So that was just spectacular. And I really loved it.

Lee Smith [00:09:02] I don’t think of elk in Mexico.

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:04] New Mexico.

Lee Smith [00:09:05] Oh, New Mexico.

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:05] New Mexico.

Lee Smith [00:09:05] New Mexico. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Yeah.

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:08] New Mexico.

Lee Smith [00:09:09] Yeah. So kind of.

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:14] Did I mess that up?

Lee Smith [00:09:15] What?

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:16] I hit that, touched it. Hit my foot.

Lee Smith [00:09:21] So why is land management critical to a preserve? Some people, you know, think of a preserve as it’s like, you know, something stuck in formaldehyde and it’s preserved.

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:32] Right.

Lee Smith [00:09:33] You know. But why is land management a critical component of a preserve?

Dan Snodgrass [00:09:40] Well, you know, all property in nature, you know, at some point needs to have some management done on it. If you just leave it alone indefinitely it grows up and reach climax species and you don’t have the diversity that, you know, you might be looking for. So it’s critical to get in and apply appropriate management on these properties for the preservation of the species that you’re there for and for the overall health of the property.

Lee Smith [00:10:07] And what kind of, I mean, we say land management. Okay. What does that entail? I know it’s tailored to different spots.

Dan Snodgrass [00:10:15] Sure.

Lee Smith [00:10:15] It’s not just a broad brush.

Dan Snodgrass [00:10:17] Right.

Lee Smith [00:10:18] But what are some of the the tools in your in your package?

Dan Snodgrass [00:10:22] Well, we you know, again, depending on the species, depending on your management goals as to what tools you might use, but it could be everything from prescribed fire to mechanical management. So that could mean using chainsaws, using heavier equipment to cut brush or cut larger trees or forestry practices. In some instances, chemical manipulation may be needed.

Dan Snodgrass [00:10:52] So it’s really an array of tools that one can use. So you have to really know what you’re trying to manage for and, you know, apply it towards that species.

Lee Smith [00:11:03] And what about livestock?

Dan Snodgrass [00:11:06] Livestock is something that we’ve used in the past. It can be a very effective tool, particularly managing grasslands. Currently, we’re not using any livestock on our properties, but it’s definitely a tool that can be used and one that that likely will be used again in the future.

Lee Smith [00:11:24] Well. And there was livestock out there before there were ranches, they ranged and were a different, hairier creature.

Dan Snodgrass [00:11:33] Right, Right. So we you know, livestock are very much a can be an integral part of your management. Now, we’ve chosen to use prescribed fire in place of livestock in many, many places. But again, it’s not, fire is always something that’s hard to do. Weather-dependent. There’s always a lot of variables that make it hard to use prescribed fire. So there are times when getting livestock back on the ground, you need something to provide some disturbance so you can manage for the grasslands.

Lee Smith [00:12:06] We’ve had two instances recently of prescribed burns getting out of hand, one in Bastrop, I believe. And then, of course, this big one out in New Mexico. Have you noticed anybody getting a little cold feet about it?

Dan Snodgrass [00:12:24] No, I wouldn’t say anyone is getting cold feet. But it, you know, it’s a constant reminder of all the planning that has to go into place prior to doing any prescribed burns. They’re very meticulous in our plans. Very safety-conscious. I think it’s probably the most analyzed thing that we do. So we really put a lot of effort into making sure all of the parameters are in place and it’s within prescription.

Lee Smith [00:12:54] And a lot of times you wind up not burning more often than you burn.

Dan Snodgrass [00:13:01] Yeah. Oh, that happens. It’s something we always have to be prepared for. So we never we never show up thinking for sure we’re going to get the burn. It’s always, you know, if the weather’s gone bad or something’s just not right. We’ve called many a fire where we didn’t do it. People people get anxious. There’s lots of travel involved. There’s expense involved in getting to these locations. But, you know, the number one priority is always safety and also trying to reach the goals of why we’re burning.

Lee Smith [00:13:31] So. Okay. So what is the Nature Conservancy’s fire program?

Dan Snodgrass [00:13:40] So our, the Nature Conservancy’s fire program is celebrating 60 years this year. So the fire program consists of men and women, primarily in our stewardship department, that use prescribed fire as a tool for land management on our own preserves.

Dan Snodgrass [00:13:57] We often work with private landowners and other agencies on prescribed fire on their properties or on other agencies’ properties. So it’s something that we’ve been doing for, as I said, 60 years.

Dan Snodgrass [00:14:10] And I’m losing my train of thought. Sorry.

Lee Smith [00:14:15] That’s all right. So it’s been going on for for a long time. So it’s not just on Nature Conservancy properties. How how do you liaison with these? Do you do do landowners come to you or do you see a piece that you know could really use some fire and you seek them out? I mean, how does that work?

Dan Snodgrass [00:14:35] So most most of the burns that we do on private lands are in areas where we have field representatives or project directors living and working. So, you know, as we work in an area, whether that be on property that we own or working with private landowners doing conservation easements, you know, we get to know those in the community.

Dan Snodgrass [00:14:57] And as we get to know people in the community and build trust, you know, things like prescribed fire, most landowners or many landowners are interested in and may not have the ability to do it or don’t know that there are entities out there that can help them with that. And so oftentimes it’s an entrance for us to come in and say, “Listen, this is something that we can do. We can offer. We can work with you on it.” And then, frankly, we’ve seen over the years, you know, those relationships turn into oftentimes long-term conservation for us so.

Lee Smith [00:15:31] Well, and a lot of people associate the Nature Conservancy with conservation easements and and acquiring or dealing, you know, they don’t associate them, even though you’ve been doing this for 60 years, as kind of a as a service arm of the Nature Conservancy.

Dan Snodgrass [00:15:51] Yeah. So you’re right. A lot of people know of the Nature Conservancy through land protection efforts, and certainly we’re really good at that. But we also own a lot of land. And so with owning land, we also have to be good stewards of that land.

Dan Snodgrass [00:16:07] So yes, we have preserve managers all over the state of Texas who spend their days working on the land, improving the land, implementing land management projects. And oftentimes, when we’re able, we like to invite folks out there to study it, look at the effects that we’ve had.

Lee Smith [00:16:29] So how do these various tools differ between different ecoregions? Do you find yourself burning in one place and not burning in another place? Or I mean, how does that … Kind of take me on a little tour.

Dan Snodgrass [00:16:44] Sure. Sure. Well, so, you know, Texas is a big state, so and we’re lucky enough to be able to work across the state of Texas. And so what I like to do is, if you think about it from deep east Texas, where it rains 60-plus inches a year, that system is growing. You can almost watch it grow. So if you’re not out there manipulating that in some form or fashion, whether that be mechanical, chemical or fire, you know, within a year or two, you can have stuff grow up to where you’re going to have to come back and really spend more money doing mechanical treatments and stuff that is more expensive than using prescribed fire.

Dan Snodgrass [00:17:26] So then if you just kind of move west across the state of Texas, you get into the Hill Country. Again, it’s it’s an area that gets, you know, ample rainfall normally, but it’s much less than it does in East Texas. So the frequency of these types of management is is less.

Dan Snodgrass [00:17:45] And then obviously, as you go further west out into far west Texas, you know, you do need to use these tools. But what you can do one year, it may take 15 years or 20 years to see those results.

Dan Snodgrass [00:17:58] So the time scale is just much different as you move across the state of Texas. Of course, you can look at the Panhandle sort of similar to far west Texas. South Texas is similar to some of the coastal plains area where things happen a little quicker.

Dan Snodgrass [00:18:12] So really, it’s it’s all about the the weather as much as anything, and the amount of rainfall.

Lee Smith [00:18:20] I had no idea. I never thought about that – the time difference, in terms of the impact of what you’re doing.

Dan Snodgrass [00:18:28] Right.

Lee Smith [00:18:33] So how do you work effectively with the landowners? I mean, you you mentioned it a little bit when you’re talking about how you have the folks living in the regions that work on the land and it’s like they’re neighbors.

Dan Snodgrass [00:18:48] Right.

Lee Smith [00:18:49] Kind of word of mouth almost. How does that work? And is that is that an effective way?

Dan Snodgrass [00:18:58] Yeah, I think it’s it’s it’s really the only way. You know, we call it community-based conservation. And I’m a firm believer in that. Until you’re kind of embedded in a community, getting to know the citizens of the area, getting to know who the landowners are, working with the local, whether it be the NRCS, or the Soil and Water Conservation Boards. It’s the only way to to really get to know people.

Dan Snodgrass [00:19:25] And then, you know, working with them, getting to know them, letting them learn about the Nature Conservancy, learn about what it is that we do, building that trust. And oftentimes these are relationships that take years to build. And it’s really it’s based on trust.

Lee Smith [00:19:45] So tell me about the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve. What is that?

Dan Snodgrass [00:19:52] So the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve is in southwest Travis County in Austin. It’s a property that we’ve owned since, I believe, 1994. It was originally set up sort of as a mitigation. It was under a 10(A) permit from the Endangered Species Act.

Dan Snodgrass [00:20:12] And we worked with the Fish and Wildlife Service and then actually a developer who was, you know, going to be doing some development that’s actually ongoing now to set aside and mitigate for some of this future development.

Dan Snodgrass [00:20:26] So it’s a little over 4000 acres set aside specifically for the golden-cheeked warbler and the black-capped vireo. And it also has about four miles of Barton Creek running through it.

Lee Smith [00:20:37] And so we’re talking kind of Southwest Parkway and 71 is that the kind of area we’re talking about?

Dan Snodgrass [00:20:43] Exactly. Southwest Parkway cuts through almost through the middle of the property. And then Highway 71 runs down the edge of the property. So Bee Caves, Southwest Parkway.

Lee Smith [00:20:57] So how does that piece of the puzzle fit in with some properties y’all have been involved with that might be private to the west, and some city properties to the east.

Dan Snodgrass [00:21:11] Well, so since we’ve owned the Barn Creek Habitat Preserve, we have again done a lot of research on that property. We’ve done lots of hands-on management for both golden-cheeked warblers and black-capped vireos.

Dan Snodgrass [00:21:24] So, you know, we’re part of a puzzle of a greater conservation effort on these species. And so, in fact, we work together with with many of them. So that particular preserve’s part of the Balcones Canyonlands Preserve system. So we’re one of, you know, multiple owners who all do management similarly.

Dan Snodgrass [00:21:45] We’re all our own entity, but we’re all kind of pulling towards the same management style. So we’re one piece of a greater puzzle. But that particular property is one of, you know, just a few left of that size in Travis County.

Lee Smith [00:22:02] Well we were out at the Shield Ranch. So that’s kind of the westernmost piece of the puzzle.

Dan Snodgrass [00:22:10] Yes.

Lee Smith [00:22:10] And then you have the various, you know, City of Austin green belts and things kind of tying over towards Barton Springs. But you can almost draw a line down that watershed, can’t you, through this mosaic of properties?

Dan Snodgrass [00:22:27] Yeah, so one of our, one of our easements was, was out near the headwaters or the head springs of Barton Creek. And so from there, all the way down through the Shield Ranch, through the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve and even on down further, there are protected properties all along that way.

Dan Snodgrass [00:22:48] And thankfully those were done when they were done because that area now has exploded in population and development. So that water drains all the way down to the Barton Springs pool. And you know, is necessary for water coming into Barton Springs.

Lee Smith [00:23:08] So how was that established – the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve? You said it was was a part of a mitigation deal with the developer and also the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Just kind of take us back on that.

Dan Snodgrass [00:23:20] Yeah. So again, this was back in 1994. The Endangered Species Act was going strong, particularly for golden-cheeked warblers in the particularly in the Hill Country. So we were able to partner with Fish and Wildlife Service and a developer who was developing stuff, you know, that he was looking out towards the future. So we were able to set aside these 4000 some odd acres to protect them, specifically for the warbler and the vireo.

Lee Smith [00:23:49] That era was sometimes termed the Warbler Wars. Has that kind of dissipated? Used to be very, very contentious with, you know, extremes of points of view from opposite camps. Has has has that kind of dissipated a bit?

Dan Snodgrass [00:24:12] Yeah, I think that those Warbler Wars have dissipated. People now are, you know, more on the same page. That doesn’t mean that there’s not still some times when, you know, development pressures interfere with warbler habitat. So we’re still still looking at those issues. But generally speaking, over time, those wars have waned.

Lee Smith [00:24:43] Yeah. Cooler heads have prevailed, I think. And, you know, it’s easy when something first happens to get upset. But now we’ve seen some time has gone by and.

Dan Snodgrass [00:24:53] And I well, I think, you know, in some ways, unfortunately, all the development that has occurred out there, people are now recognizing the importance of these green spaces, whether they knew at the time it was for golden-cheeked warblers or water quality or quantity or black-capped vireos. They certainly recognize open space.

Dan Snodgrass [00:25:14] And I think as Travis County and Austin and the area around the Hill Country continues to develop, I think by and large, most people are recognizing the importance of these open spaces.

Dan Snodgrass [00:25:26] Well, you know, we’ve been talking about golden-cheeked warblers and warbler habitat and then its importance. And then, you know, still this nexus of warbler habitat and development that is still ongoing. I mean, we’re not slowing down the growth of some of these cities and people have to live somewhere.

Dan Snodgrass [00:25:45] So people have realized that there still is mitigation that needs to take place. So it’s being enforced by the Fish and Wildlife Service and Endangered Species Act. So private landowners have opted in to mitigation banking.

Dan Snodgrass [00:26:00] This is specific to species mitigation banking. So we hear a lot about wetland mitigation and this is actually for species mitigation and in this case specifically the golden-cheeked warbler.

Dan Snodgrass [00:26:13] And so this is where credits are sold on private lands. So if you are a developer and you need to develop, you know, property in San Antonio, you may be required to mitigate for that take that you’re doing.

Dan Snodgrass [00:26:29] So, you know, the the amount may vary depending on where you are, but you can look further west out with some individuals who have set up these banks, conservation banks or mitigation banks, and buy credit for good golden-cheeked warbler habitat.

Dan Snodgrass [00:26:47] And those banks are all under a conservation easement in permanent conservation. So it’s it’s another way to continue the good conservation work that’s occurring. It’s a way for a landowner to take advantage of habitat that they have and make money towards their bottom line.

Lee Smith [00:27:12] I’ve asked that.

Lee Smith [00:27:14] So, and we’re kind of using Barton Creek habitat preserves as a touchstone here, but it can be applied to a bunch of these other ones. But why is education and outreach important on those properties?

Dan Snodgrass [00:27:30] Well, I think education and outreach is ever more important today than it probably has ever been. You know, open spaces are in high demand. People are taking advantage of the outdoors.

Dan Snodgrass [00:27:45] But I think it’s important to educate people on the importance of these properties. You know, it’s important to have open space. It’s important to have parks. It’s important for people to be able to recreate.

Dan Snodgrass [00:27:56] But it’s also important to share the message of why this place is important in terms of the wildlife or the native species that live there. Or water or water quality. All of these properties have functions beyond looking pretty. They’re actual valuable property for for nature and nature itself.

Lee Smith [00:28:18] So tell me about your first job with the Nature Conservancy out in in Texas City?

Dan Snodgrass [00:28:25] Yeah. Correct. So my first position with the Nature Conservancy was at our now-called Texas City Prairie Preserve. At that time, we called it the Galveston Bay Prairie Preserve.

Dan Snodgrass [00:28:37] What Texas City Prairie Preserve is now known for or, was known for at the time, was the Attwater’s prairie chicken, one of the most endangered birds in North America. And so my first position with the Nature Conservancy was a technician on the property, and my primary duties were to go out, monitor that population. Many of the birds had radio collars on them. And so we used radio telemetry to track the birds and try to increase their survival rates on the property.

Lee Smith [00:29:10] I had no idea they were out there. I thought it was just over near Eagle Lake at that preserve.

Dan Snodgrass [00:29:16] So Eagle Lake, obviously the National Fish and Wildlife Refuge, has had Attwater’s prairie chickens. Texas City had Attwater’s prairie chicken for for many years. Unfortunately now, there are not prairie chickens on our own property. We’ve been able to shift our management more towards coastal grasslands and in trying to improve some of that management. But for a number of years there were prairie chickens still on that property, and we managed almost exclusively, exclusively for the Attwater prairie chicken.

Lee Smith [00:29:48] And when you think of Texas City, you don’t think of prairie.

Dan Snodgrass [00:29:52] No. No. And it’s you know, it’s a really fantastic piece of property, just outside the city limits of Texas City. But you’re right. You’re out there on, you know, thousands of acres of coastal prairie looking across at refineries and city. So it’s a really unique property. And the coastal habitat is just amazing.

Lee Smith [00:30:17] And what about the wildlife? And and I mean, it seems like that would just be a beacon.

Dan Snodgrass [00:30:23] It is. It’s an amazing place for wildlife. Deer, you know, dozens and dozens of species of birds that migrate through there. The grassland prairie is amazing. We’re right on Moses Lake and Galveston Bay. So there’s, you know, the aquatic side of things, so marsh. It’s all, all exists on one property there in Texas City.

Lee Smith [00:30:47] So is there some some waterfront?

Dan Snodgrass [00:30:50] Yeah, very much so. Yes.

Dan Snodgrass [00:30:52] On the east side is Moses Lake. And we go from Moses Lake all the way up to the Hurricane Dam, we call it. Yeah. Yeah, the levee with the hurricane gate. I’m not sure the right term. Anyway, you know, on the on the south end of the property is a is a levee and a hurricane gate that the Gulf drains right into Moses Lake. And so we’re surrounded on two sides by by water.

Lee Smith [00:31:22] So what happened with the prairie chickens? How come they’re not there now?

Dan Snodgrass [00:31:27] Well, fortunately, you know, the Attwater prairie chicken still does exist. Those populations have shifted to the Attwater’s Prairie Chicken National Wildlife Refuge, and we are now releasing those on private lands in the Refugio-Goliad Prairie. That original population there at the Texas City Prairie Preserve, you know, we suffered through droughts. We suffered through hurricanes, predation. It was just a very challenging environment to work in.

Dan Snodgrass [00:31:55] And the population got so small that we were more interested in serving, saving the genetic diversity of that species. And so we gave up on trying to release and maintain birds on that property for that very reason, so we could increase the genetic diversity and put those birds back into the gene pool, and that now have, you know, translated to releasing more birds at the Attwater’s Prairie Chicken Refuge as well as on private land in the Refugio-Goliad prairie where you have a much larger expanse of grasslands and, you know, overall better habitat that’s not as confined as what was on the Texas City Prairie Preserve.

Lee Smith [00:32:37] And so getting back to Barton Creek Preserve there. That was your second job. Take us from from Texas City to in your career and what you did there.

Dan Snodgrass [00:32:50] Sure, so I so I moved to to Austin as my, in my second position with the Nature Conservancy. And I was the preserve manager of the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve.

Dan Snodgrass [00:33:02] And at that time, we were talking, you know, primarily about golden-cheeked warblers and black-capped vireos. Black-capped videos differ from the golden-cheeked warbler because they’re a species that require a little more management. They prefer more of an open, grassy, mixed shrubland habitat as opposed to a, you know, of a more dense woodland, closed canopy habitat.

Dan Snodgrass [00:33:27] So in order to to manage for that species, you know, we had to get out and do some of these more hands-on mechanical manipulations where we were going out and removing cedar trees, cutting down cedar, opening up the habitat back again.

Dan Snodgrass [00:33:44] We actually did our first prescribed fire on the property in 1999, which was one of the earlier places where people started using fire for black-capped vireo management.

Dan Snodgrass [00:33:57] So I’d like to think that some of that early work, you know, influenced and helped others in their management. We certainly didn’t invent it, but it wasn’t being widely used at the time. And so since then, you know, many entities such as the City of Austin, Travis County and others are now using prescribed fire as part of their tools.

Lee Smith [00:34:18] You’ll hear it on the radio. They’ll they’ll announce where they’re going to be doing one of these.

Dan Snodgrass [00:34:23] Yeah, Yeah. So today we partner with both Travis County and the City of Austin on prescribed fires. And so we work well with them. We have MOUs with both of those agencies. We work on each other’s properties. We do trainings together.

Lee Smith [00:34:43] So now, heading back out west to the Davis Mountains. Tell us about some of the not prescribed burns, but you you’ve been involved in some wildfire activities. Just tell us about those.

Dan Snodgrass [00:34:58] Yeah, we have. So, you know, our Davis Mountains Preserve is 33,000 acres. Sky islands. Heavily wooded, dry country that is susceptible to prescribed burn or to wildfire.

Dan Snodgrass [00:35:13] You know, we’ve had a number of wildfires over the years out there, but probably none so big as that that occurred in 2011. And at that time, the Nature Conservancy was able to put together a full strike force of engines. So that was made up of all Nature Conservancy employees who deployed out to the Davis Mountains area, and were working on that wildfire right alongside with the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the federal land management agencies that come in and often take over those large incidences.

Dan Snodgrass [00:35:49] So during that time, our 33,000-acre preserve, about 90% of that property burned. So, you know, us having property in the community, working with landowners out there, knowing the landscape and able to come in and work with the federal entities that are running the big fire operations out there, I think it’s a a valuable tool, something that we have to offer. And I think it’s another way that, you know, we get ingrained in the community and people know us as more than just that entity that has a property out there that, you know, we actually have a service that we do provide and can provide and can help in situations like this.

Dan Snodgrass [00:36:32] Right. No, it’s, you know, when wildfires like of that magnitude occur, you know, obviously we’re concerned about people’s homes, you know, their livelihood.

Dan Snodgrass [00:36:44] But from an ecological standpoint, you know, these fires end up doing more good, far more good than they do harm.

Dan Snodgrass [00:36:52] You know, that country is susceptible to burning. It’s a natural part of the environment out there. It’s been occurring for thousands of years.

Dan Snodgrass [00:37:00] And so when a fire like this comes through, you know, the immediate impact is, yes, loss of fences, loss of grazing lands, hopefully not loss of anyone’s home. But when that, but the burn on the landscape itself is is actually a good thing.

Lee Smith [00:37:18] So how do conservation easements as part of the Nature Conservancy’s portfolio, how do those fit in?

Dan Snodgrass [00:37:33] Well, so we’ve been working on conservation easements really since the very beginning of the Nature Conservancy in Texas. Currently we have, I think it’s over 175 conservation easements around the state of Texas, you know, approaching 500,000 acres of lands that are permanently conserved. We’ve done that almost all over the state of Texas in all of our geographies, from the Panhandle to south Texas to deep east Texas to far west Texas, and certainly in the Hill Country.

Dan Snodgrass [00:38:03] These these easements are oftentimes for us are a way for us to build upon work that we’ve already done. Sometimes it’s an anchor preserve, like the Barton Creek Habitat Preserve or the Davis Mountains Preserve, or maybe our Dolan Falls Preserve. So these are areas that we know of that have high ecological value.

Dan Snodgrass [00:38:25] And so when we expand upon the work that we’ve already started and start working with private landowners who in most cases have the same ideas in mind, they may talk about it a little bit, a little bit differently. But, you know, once you really get to know people and hear what their concerns are, you know, our differences are very little. You know, we may talk about it differently, but most of the time people want the same thing.

Dan Snodgrass [00:38:51] So it’s a way for us to further protect and expand our reach and put land into permanent protection. And it allows for the landowner to continue to own the ranch, continue to do the ranching or hunting or fishing or the things that the landowner wants to do. And the Nature Conservancy doesn’t have to own the property, so it’s just another means to expand our conservation reach.

Lee Smith [00:39:14] So what’s the driving force and some benefits of conservation easements?

Dan Snodgrass [00:39:22] I think the driving force behind the conservation easement with the landowner is the perpetual protection of the property. There are financial implications that can be realized by donating a conservation easement. But to get right at the core of it, the benefits of knowing that that property is going to be protected in the future far outweighs the financial benefits.

Lee Smith [00:39:45] What advice would you have for a young person that is interested in working in the conservation field?

Dan Snodgrass [00:39:55] So the advice I’d have for anyone interested in working in conservation starting off is experience. Spend time in the outdoors. Know what it is you’re interested in, and seek out positions in conservation and be general about it.

Dan Snodgrass [00:40:10] There’s a million things one can do in conservation, so don’t limit yourself to whatever your idea may be. Go out and experience all that conservation has to offer. And the more experience one can get and the more well-rounded one can get in conservation, the better.

Lee Smith [00:40:33] And what about the future of just conservation work and and the the movement? Are you optimistic or what do you think the future holds for the conservation field?

Dan Snodgrass [00:40:48] Well, I’m a I’m an optimist. And when you talk about conservation, oftentimes we hear the negative side of things. But I think we’re at a point in time where people are realizing ever more the importance of conservation, the importance of open space, the importance of wildlife, our rivers and streams and oceans. And I think there’s, the future is bright for conservation.