Conservation History Association of Texas
Texas Legacy Project
Oral History Interview
Nature Conservancy in Texas

Interviewee: David Honeycutt
Date: May 9, 2022
Site: Austin, Texas
Reels: 3442-3443
Executive Producer: Lydia Saldana
Producer: Jeff Weigel
Field Producer / Chief Interviewer: Lee Smith
Videographer: Curtis Craven
Writer / Editor: Ron Kabele
Transcriber: David Todd / Trint
Item: Honeycutt_David_NCItem12_AustinTX_20220509_Reel3442-3443_Audio.mp3

[Numbers refer to the interview recording’s time code.]

Lee Smith [00:00:16] So David, where did you grow up?

David Honeycutt [00:00:18] I grew up in Houston, Texas, in the late ’50s and all through the ’60s.

Lee Smith [00:00:26] And is there any aspect of your early childhood that sparked an interest in the environment? Do you remember anything?

David Honeycutt [00:00:37] Well, where we lived in Houston. We we lived on a creek that is is still a running creek. It’s not cemented like many creeks in Houston, and it’s called Rummel Creek. And we were on the edge of town when we moved there, the very western edge of Houston in the Memorial area. And there was a lot of wildlife back there. In fact, over my childhood, I saw all four poisonous snakes there.

David Honeycutt [00:01:03] But what was particularly interesting is there was a girl next door that was a couple of years older than me, and she’d found this log cabin in the woods that was inhabited by a lady by the name of Edith Moore.

David Honeycutt [00:01:16] And Edith was definitely an early conservationist, so to speak, in that she lived there by choice. And her husband had passed away a few years before. So she was a widow living out in this log cabin, which seemed out in the middle of nowhere back then, which it was.

David Honeycutt [00:01:34] So we would go over and see her on Saturday morning and she would give us cookies, but she would also talk about all the birds. She had a bird sanctuary there. So that was probably my first encounter with somebody that we would now call a conservationist today.

David Honeycutt [00:01:51] When she passed away, she dedicated that property to the Audubon Society, and that’s now a headquarters for this Edith Moore Bird Sanctuary that is 17 acres in the middle of Houston, Texas.

David Honeycutt [00:02:07] You know, we had a tree fort network in there and with all my buddies in the neighborhood and we had a central tree fort in a sycamore tree that was two stories that had a lock on the floor. And we would spend the night up in in in that sycamore tree for 3 or 4 years we did that, you know, from when we were about ten to we were 14.

David Honeycutt [00:02:28] So that was a really fortunate thing to have in an asphalt and concrete jungle like Houston was and is. So I was fortunate there.

David Honeycutt [00:02:37] Another thing would be that my mother or my grandmother had a had a heavily wooded farm up in East Texas in Panola County. And in fact, there was still some original virgin pine timber there that had never been harvested, which is unusual for the area, because much of it had been, and most of it was second or third growth.

David Honeycutt [00:02:59] So we’re fortunate to have that property and we had a big pond on it, which I called a lake as a kid, which was five acres and stocked full of fish. So my dad and I fished there quite a bit as a kid.

David Honeycutt [00:03:11] It was it was an important escape. And it was a three-hour trip from our house in Houston to East Texas.

Lee Smith [00:03:19] So my next question was, do you have a family member or a mentor? It sounds like…

David Honeycutt [00:03:25] You know, my father and my Uncle Baxter, my dad’s immediate brother younger than him. They were like best friends, all their lives. And so we did a lot with that, their family. And and my cousin Mike was two years younger than me, his oldest son. So we were all thick as thieves.

David Honeycutt [00:03:45] So we we enjoyed East Texas. We went on a lot of camping trips. They lived, he worked in the oil industry and they lived in Corpus for a lot of my childhood. So I love Corpus Christi to go down there and visit. And I went to Mustang Island before it was ever developed, you know, in the ’60s, so I got to see it in kind of in its pristine state, but my uncle was definitely an outdoorsman, probably more so than my dad, so he inspired all of us.

Lee Smith [00:04:13] Was there anything in popular culture, perhaps, like a TV show or a movie or any books that you read back then that sparked an interest in you at all?

Speaker 2 [00:04:25] Yeah, we had National Geographic magazines in our house, and every time a new edition would come into the house, I would go cover to cover. So there was a lot of inspirational conservation stories in there that touched me. And of course they were all over the world. So it was another way to also learn about the rest of the world. But a lot of it was obviously focused around nature.

David Honeycutt [00:04:47] So that was a, and that was, you know, from my mother’s childhood also. So she introduced that from her childhood into my childhood. And both my sister and I, you know, were attached to that magazine and still are.

Lee Smith [00:05:02] So what was your first involvement in conservation work?

Speaker 2 [00:05:07] The first thing I can really remember doing consciously was was a river clean-up on the San Marcos River when I went to college there. I started school at Southwest Texas and later transferred to Texas. But, you know, I fell in love with that river. And that was really how I became, you know, really intimate with the Hill Country was, you know, going to that school.

David Honeycutt [00:05:31] I was in that river almost every day, you know, after school. And, you know, in fact, all my friends were too. It was a big part of our life. And we snuck into Aquarena Springs back then when it wasn’t allowed with snorkels and fins and went all over all over that, and they chased us in those glass bottom boats, chased us out of there. And so that was kind of a fun thing to do back in those days.

David Honeycutt [00:05:55] Saw some really big water snakes in there that had eaten, too. I remember, I remember that really well – a big water state that had a big belly. So it must have just gotten fish. And a friend of mine was so frightened about it, he about drowned trying to get away from it and lost his snorkel and mask in the meantime.

Lee Smith [00:06:13] So did you go swimming with any of those mermaids?

David Honeycutt [00:06:16] You know, I never saw a mermaid when we were doing it, but yes, they had them. And they had a pig. Though I did see the pig in the water. But I never did see a mermaid.

Lee Smith [00:06:29] So, so how did you become involved with Dolan Falls?

David Honeycutt [00:06:34] Well, I. I guess I really got involved with the Nature Conservancy in earnest. You know, I bought property in ’93, and the reason I did is a friend of mine was also buying property. And there’s a large-lot subdivision called Blue Sage. And he said I need to check it out and told me how to get there. And I’d never heard of the Devils River.

[00:06:59] So I went out there and I was awe-struck and couldn’t believe there was a place like this in Texas. And it was so remote. So I was, I immediately decided I needed to buy a piece of property out there. So I did. And I’ve since added to it and now I have a conservation easement on it. I started off with 210 acres and now I have, I think, 735 acres. So I’ve, I’ve kind of defragmented the southern end of of that that old ranch to some degree. So that was my my early beginnings there.

David Honeycutt [00:07:34] How I got more engaged with the Nature Conservancy had to do with a plan that Texas Parks and Wildlife had in 2010. They were, they had an anonymous gift that was going to expire at the end of 2010. And they had some limited resources. So what they were trying to do is use those resources as well as what is now the North Unit, which was the only State Natural Area on the river at that time, a 19,000-acre piece of property, that Texas Parks and Wildlife had.

David Honeycutt [00:08:12] And they were going to trade it for a tract on the southern end of the river, which is now the South Unit, which was 17,000 acres. So and then the goal was to turn that into a state park, which was the boundary of that property was a mile from my property.

David Honeycutt [00:08:30] So from a selfish interest standpoint, given how the topography is around the river, I knew there would be horrible trespassing, you know, and we would all of our quality of life and enjoyment of our property would be ruined permanently.

David Honeycutt [00:08:43] And I also had the, you know, the image of Garner State Park in this in this very fragile Chihuahuan desert landscape with beer bottles, baby diapers and and, you know, spray painting on pictographs and all these other things that I imagined, which I’m sure would have happened.

David Honeycutt [00:09:04] So I was in in in opposition to it. And this how Carter Smith was going about it was notices in the back of newspapers. So he was obviously, and he’d already previewed the conservation community, which included TNC and others, and he had sold them on his plan so there wouldn’t be opposition. But nobody invited me to that luncheon, so I never heard any of that.

David Honeycutt [00:09:29] So I didn’t want it, and I thought it was a bad idea. First of all, I saw that they were shrinking their footprint from 19,000 acres to 17,000 acres. I didn’t think that was a good idea. Obviously I thought that a state park was a very bad idea for for this river.

David Honeycutt [00:09:48] So I was doing all this open records stuff and I went and met with Carter and, you know, he and I were friends before and we were we were on the wrong side of this. We were in disagreement.

David Honeycutt [00:10:01] And he was steadfast in what he was, his plan was and I continued on in my opposition, but I finally realized, you know, I can win the battle and lose the war here, and I probably need to do something different if I wanted to change this outcome.

David Honeycutt [00:10:18] So it occurred to me to meet with him the day before he had a commissioners’ meeting which was going to codify, you know, and move the plan to move forward to turn that that property, do that exchange, that property exchange, and turn that into a state park.

David Honeycutt [00:10:36] So I had to come to him offering a plan. So what I came to him with is I will give X amount of dollars, which was meaningful, if you’ll do two things.

David Honeycutt [00:10:50] One, don’t turn the southern property into a state park. Keep it as a state natural area and also keep the other one. So instead of going from 19,000 to 17,000 acres, why don’t we have 36,000 acres? You know, have two different state natural areas.

David Honeycutt [00:11:11] Well, you know, he liked the sound of that. And and I give credit to Carter, you know, more more than myself, because many people I know have too big an ego to change their mind when they hear a better idea. And he’s not that kind of person, you know. And he knew that was a better idea.

David Honeycutt [00:11:37] And so what he said is, “Well, if you can put that in an email to me,” and of course, we’re already sitting here about 8:00 at night and he’s got this thing at like nine in the morning the next day. So I have to go home and tell my wife what we’re doing. And she’s not that happy about it. But she says, “Okay.”

David Honeycutt [00:11:54] So then I get the email out and he presents it to the commissioners and several of them spontaneously give because while my gift was significant and there was some resources they had there, the number we needed to get to, was in excess of nine million dollars. But many of those commissioners made a commitment on the spot.

David Honeycutt [00:12:19] So it was it was you know, it was an opportunity that came about almost too late. You know, I finally had the good judgment to understand that I needed to change how I was behaving if I wanted to change the outcome. So fortunately, I had somebody who who is confident enough in himself and in his own good judgment to to know a better idea when he hears it and not let his ego stand in the way of a better outcome. And that’s why Carter is our best conservationist in our state. It’s not because of the title. It’s how he is as a person.

Lee Smith [00:12:56] That’s a cool story. And he may have been inspired by by your change of heart in your opposition.

David Honeycutt [00:13:06] Well, that’s how he is. You know, he’s that way. You know, he is a kind, thoughtful person by nature. So if I’m coming at him in a different way, that’s not adversarial, that, you know, trying to meet in the middle, or perhaps come up with a solution that we both can like better, you know, he he he was quick to do that.

David Honeycutt [00:13:33] And, you know, he he sold it. You know, he actually sold it. I didn’t sell it. He sold it to all those guys, but quickly.

Lee Smith [00:13:44] In less than.

David Honeycutt [00:13:44] We raised all that money in 30, 30, in less than 30 days. And then the next thing you know, we have two state natural areas which are now the North Unit in and the South Unit on that river.

David Honeycutt [00:13:57] And you know, there and it’s increased the paddling interest, you know, because there’s a campsite there and there’s other campsites that have been dedicated upstream. So now there’s an informal paddling trail from the 163 bridge, which we call Baker’s Crossing, all the way down to that South Unit. And it’s a 3 or 4-day river excursion that many people do and enjoy.

David Honeycutt [00:14:20] And, and that is a very central, that North Unit, is a really critical piece of that of that. So had we not had that, or say that was going to be in private hands, you know, it wouldn’t have been there perhaps.

David Honeycutt [00:14:34] The other thing that was important to notice about that North Unit is the original things that TNC was concerned about was fragmentation. You know, exactly what had happened in the area where I lived in, where a big ranch had been cut up into small tracts. You know, and TNC has protected 155,000 acres with conservation easements on the Devils River. And that was and is a critical concern.

David Honeycutt [00:15:03] But what we came to know was even perhaps even more important was the water resource. And this old conservation easement was silent to protecting the water resource.

David Honeycutt [00:15:14] So the way we looked at it, meaning my little group in opposition was, well, the guy that was swapped, they were swapping, they’re going to swap this property for. He’s trustworthy. But what if he sells it to somebody else? And what if it’s, you know, an opportunist?

David Honeycutt [00:15:33] You know, we had come across a study about the water resource on that, and it was described as being enough water resource on that that North Unit to provide a city of Lubbock all of its water needs. So that’s, there’s a spring complex on there, which is really how that that Doland Falls cataract is part of. It’s a massive spring complex there in Dolan Creek. You know, it feeds into the Devils River right there, right where that cataract is.

Lee Smith [00:16:17] You’ve kind of covered who the key players are. What did they contribute to the process?

David Honeycutt [00:16:21] Well, the key players were me and Carter. You know, you know, other rich guys wrote checks later and we appreciate them. But, you know, it was me come up with the idea and Carter having having the wisdom and temperament to to recognize that it was a better deal.

David Honeycutt [00:16:37] But he was really the most important person because if he, if I didn’t influence him and convince him, then it would’ve never happened. But it would never have happened if he and I hadn’t had that encounter the night before. We’d have had a state park out there and that North Unit wouldn’t be there today.

Lee Smith [00:16:55] Now, there’s almost a contradiction in a couple of concepts that you’re talking about. But you’re talking about how a state park would have ruined that your property, but you’re also talking about having this great paddle trail. And so it’s almost in in how it is being used.

David Honeycutt [00:17:21] Well, there’s.

Lee Smith [00:17:23] There’s a different kind of user or I don’t know, maybe it’s it’s it’s. Do you see where I’m going with that?

David Honeycutt [00:17:27] Well, Texas Parks and Wildlife was smart. You know, right after we, all that happened, you know, they they had a constituent meeting which included all the disparate people that are interested in that river – local landowners, conservationists, paddling community. All of us had a, were part of a group to to make decisions on this river.

David Honeycutt [00:17:54] And part of those decisions centered around responsible recreation. And responsible recreation is different than a bunch of people wheeling up beer coolers, you know, and getting snot-slinging drunk and throwing their beer cans in the Devils River. You know, that’s not the same thing.

David Honeycutt [00:18:14] And there’s no, in managing a property like that, you know, I just don’t think Texas Parks and Wildlife could manage those boundaries. It would have been very, very difficult.

David Honeycutt [00:18:24] There is a pictograph site that is critically important and unspoiled right next to that what was going to be the State Natural rea, right up a canyon. And I can guarantee you there’d be names all over that now. And there’s not now.

Lee Smith [00:18:44] And there’s an importance in public access to garner.

David Honeycutt [00:18:49] Absolutely.

Lee Smith [00:18:50] Appreciation.

David Honeycutt [00:18:51] That’s right.

Lee Smith [00:18:52] Of these spaces.

David Honeycutt [00:18:53] That’s right.

Lee Smith [00:18:56] So how does that fit into the puzzle?

David Honeycutt [00:19:00] Well, you know, people can recreate on that river without any participation with Texan Parks and Wildlife. But there’s a permit system if you do participate with Texas Parks and Wildlife. And what that does is gives you formal campsites.

David Honeycutt [00:19:15] So you, and there’s only so many people that are allowed on the river. But there are people that take people in the river that are outside of that. But for the most part, most people use it. And in and of itself, it regulates the traffic on the river.

David Honeycutt [00:19:32] You know, the times when you’ll see that change, like spring break, you know, you have, you know, maybe excess people during spring break time than that system can allow. So there are people who will get on the river that aren’t under that permit system. But generally speaking, people use it and it’s it’s a great program and you can do it online.

Lee Smith [00:19:52] I’ll bet some of the landowners may have been a little skeptical of whether that system would work. How has it played out?

David Honeycutt [00:20:03] Well, the two most northern campsites are donated by Dale Dickinson and his family, and he’s a multi-generational landowner out there, a retired commercial pilot. And Dale is one of one of our great representatives along that river. And he he did that, and he and his family, did that out of the goodness of their heart.

David Honeycutt [00:20:24] And so there’s two Texas Park and Wildlife managed campsites on his river frontage because they have an abundance of river frontage, so one on the northern end of this property and on the southern end, and they’re miles away from each other.

David Honeycutt [00:20:38] So that are the first two opportunities before you get to the North Unit other than some islands that people us. There are a few islands. You know, the risk of the island, of course, is if, you know, a wall of water comes down river. But I guess that would be true of campsites as well. But that’s what makes some people nervous about being on those islands.

Lee Smith [00:21:00] Now, when we talk of Devils River and Dolan Falls, most of our talk has been about the natural resources there. But you’ve been mentioning this cultural resource, the pictograph site.

David Honeycutt [00:21:16] That’s right.

Lee Smith [00:21:18] So that adds another layer of importance. And I’m sure that’s not the only spot there. What’s the cultural importance of protecting this area?

David Honeycutt [00:21:31] Well, Seminole Canyon would be a state park that we have that is maybe the best example of it. You know, they have a diorama there, too, which is fascinating. I don’t know if you ever been there, but it shows you what it looked like during the Ice Age and you can’t even imagine it’s the same country.

David Honeycutt [00:21:46] But they’ve got some spectacular pictographs inside that state park. But they are all up and down the river and then they’re there on the Pecos and they’re on the Rio Grande. This whole area, the Lower Canyon area, is full of evidence of habitation by nomadic peoples that lived there, you know, 4 or 5000 years ago.

Lee Smith [00:22:12] The white shaman.

David Honeycutt [00:22:13] The white shaman is a great example. Carolyn Boyd is the foremost authority on this and she has written a great book and it has many, many of these sites illustrated in there. And I’ve learned a lot, you know, about them from that book. And Cedar Springs is a place that’s close to our property. And that one is, well, well-covered in her book.

Lee Smith [00:22:38] Yes. I interviewed her out at Cedar Springs, I’m pretty sure it was, for a story when I was with Parks and Wildlife.

David Honeycutt [00:22:46] And she she’s a neat lady.

Lee Smith [00:22:49] But like I say, it adds that hold different layer of importance.

David Honeycutt [00:22:54] It is. It sure does. And, you know, it was all about the water, right? Because it’s all on the water. And what a magnificent part of the world that was in the midst of, you know, I guess it was changing. And who knows what it’s like 5 or 6000 years ago, but I imagine it was already probably pretty arid. By the things they found in these middens and things, it looks like the same type of vegetation. The sandals are made out of, you know, the very same vegetation that we see out there today.

David Honeycutt [00:23:21] But you had the Rio Grande in its original state, and the Pecos flowing freely into the Rio Grande. And then the Devils.

David Honeycutt [00:23:31] And the Devils is a hugely important water resource for Amistad, you know, and for for all the people who live in the Rio Grande Valley.

David Honeycutt [00:23:42] You know, all that water’s spoken for. People think, “Well, gosh, you know we can use this water elsewhere.”

David Honeycutt [00:23:47] Well no, between Mexico and the United States, you know, that water fully subscribed. So it’s important that the flows that come into that, into the Amistad from the Devils make up, I think, about a third of the water.

Lee Smith [00:24:02] So how do you connect with the river?

David Honeycutt [00:24:06] Well, always first visually, you know. When I first see the river on the road I come into, I always look to this certain spot. And there’s this little period where, this little brief moment, where you see a little piece of the river.

David Honeycutt [00:24:21] And of course, when I get to my property, you know, there’s a promontory I go to and I and I immediately look out over the river. And then the next thing I do after we unpack everything, is get in it, you know, go swim, you know, you know, unless it’s freezing cold.

David Honeycutt [00:24:35] But, you know, they’re, you know, really, really from late March until late November, you can get in that river, it seems like. You know, it’s spring-fed, certainly in our area. So it only gets so cold or so hot. And that’s, of course, a wonderful thing in the summer when it’s 100-plus degrees and that water cools you off.

David Honeycutt [00:24:56] You just get in here to have your face covered and your nose covered and you know that you can sit in there all day as long as you have ample amounts of water and cold beer.

Lee Smith [00:25:07] That area, I refer to it as a very tactile environment. You can feel it.

David Honeycutt [00:25:18] Yeah.

Lee Smith [00:25:18] The ground feels harder.

David Honeycutt [00:25:20] Yeah.

Lee Smith [00:25:20] The the plants are sharper. Tend to tell me about this this different world.

David Honeycutt [00:25:27] Well it’s in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert, certainly where I, where my property is. Absolutely Chihuahua desert. There’s relic oaks that are up upstream, have dissipated by the time you get down to my property.

David Honeycutt [00:25:39] So you know, you have to respect that. You know, it’s a it’s a dangerous place if not handled properly. So it’s you know, it’s at your own peril you go into that country if you think you’re right around the corner from where you live, you know.

David Honeycutt [00:25:59] And we’ve had minor injuries for first-time visitors out there, you know, they get, they have a little bit too much to drink and fallen in some cactus and things like that. So fortunately, nothing very bad.

David Honeycutt [00:26:09] But it I think people are, and also they’re struck by, you know, how intense the sun and the heat is in the summer. And, you know, we have sadly, about four years ago, we had a young guy die along the river. He was with a group of other young guys. I guess they came from Houston and he got separated. And, you know, I think he’d been hydrating on beer and and they came and found him and he was sitting along the bank and and he’s kind of leaning there and they thought he was still alive and he had expired and he was in his twenties.

David Honeycutt [00:26:42] So things can happen out there, you know, So you, especially in the heat of the summer, you know, you have to make sure you have plenty of water.

Lee Smith [00:26:51] And how does that area just kind of inform your sense of self, that that big open place that can kill you? But what does it do for your sense of just.

David Honeycutt [00:27:06] It’s humbling and awe-inspiring all at the same time for me. Humbling in the sense that, you know, we’re on this planet for such a short amount of time and relative to the landscape, you know, we’re we’re fairly insignificant, you know, and, you know, you know, the geological history involved in the creation of that area has happened over eons. And and then you’re there, but for a brief moment. So the thing I always say is don’t screw it up.

Lee Smith [00:27:34] So it inspires a motivation to conserve?

David Honeycutt [00:27:39] It does. It does. And in in almost in anyone. That happens when I have friends come out there for the first time, they they immediately get it. You know, they they see why it’s a special place and then they feel so themselves and they see why it’s a passion of mine and others to protect it.

David Honeycutt [00:27:56] You know, we, off the backs of that, you know, that fortunate turn of events that Carter and I were able to collectively steer, we started the Devils River Conservancy.

David Honeycutt [00:28:08] And I remember asking Jeffrey Francell, you know, about I said, do you think we ought to get another conservancy? He goes, “You know, there’s already too many of these crummy little conservancies. I don’t I don’t think so.”

David Honeycutt [00:28:24] But after that, all that almost happened. I said, “You know what, I know the answer to this question and I only have to ask myself. We need to have a separate conservation group that’s dedicated solely for the purpose of protecting the Devils River.”

David Honeycutt [00:28:38] And we started it, you know, I guess we accomplished that, that, you know, that outcome at the end of 2010 and we started the DRC December of 2010, you know. Right away.

David Honeycutt [00:28:50] And, and it’s grown and prospered. And we’ve had great leadership from many, many people – Randy Nunns and Alice Ball Strunk and Julie Lewey, Jim Norman, myself and others. You know, those those are some of the people in our organization have had tremendous impact on that river over these last several years.

Lee Smith [00:29:16] So you’re not in competition with the Nature Conservancy?

David Honeycutt [00:29:20] No. We’re joined, you know, particularly over time, we’re now arm in arm.

David Honeycutt [00:29:28] And here’s the thing about the Nature Conservancy. It does things all over the world, but it’s also, it has to be politically adroit. And, you know, it can’t roll up its sleeves and get in a fist fight every time there’s something they don’t like.

David Honeycutt [00:29:45] Well, we can. You know. And we have. You know, one of the more recent things that we were able to turn around is a Chinese billionaire bought 130,000 acres in and around the Devils River, fortunately, not any river frontage, with the purpose of scattering 700-foot tall wind turbines all over it.

David Honeycutt [00:30:11] And, you know, when we started on that, we were we were kind of like Don Quijote fighting the windmills. Ah, he had a lot of, he had the right lawyers and, you know, and and when we first started, you know, trying to battle him, you know, we had lobbyists. And they said, “You can’t say anything bad about Chinese.”

David Honeycutt [00:30:31] You know, of course, in the end of the day, you know, after after the pandemic, you know, then it was open season on saying bad things about Chinese. So that ended up being how we got a state bill passed in the last session where, you know, if you’re from North Korea or you’re from Russia or you’re from China or you’re from Iran, you can’t own any of our infrastructure.

David Honeycutt [00:30:53] So that was how we were able to blunt what he’s trying to do out there.

David Honeycutt [00:30:58] But there’s another thing, you know, the you know, the Western territories in China, you know, there is a large Muslim population and, you know, they refer to as the Uyghurs. And, you know, they’ve got millions of those people incarcerated over there and they’re reprograming or whatever.

David Honeycutt [00:31:19] Well, this guy is the wealthiest guy in in Urumqi, which is the capital city in that part of China. And I’m sure he’s confiscated several pieces of real estate from those poor people. So he’s like a really bad actor and he’s right in the middle of our landscape.

David Honeycutt [00:31:37] So that was where we were useful. And we were able to, you know, and we waged that war for about four years before we finally had that outcome. And we’re still waging it because he’s he you know, he continues to, you know, try to push forward, you know, on some of his plans. But we’re stubbing him on a daily basis.

Lee Smith [00:32:01] Do you remember the first time you were out there at night and stopped and didn’t move for hours?

David Honeycutt [00:32:12] I do. And it was the first time I spent the night out there. And for the first six years that I owned property out there, I camped out there. So I would, I lived in Houston and we would, I’d get a bunch of friends and we’d pile into pickups and Suburbans and head west.

David Honeycutt [00:32:29] And so the very first time I spent the night there, it was it was in the late winter. So, you know, the skies are clear and it’s cold. So those are really the most profound starlit nights. And it happened to be a night, you know, and a new moon. So there was there were stars everywhere.

David Honeycutt [00:32:48] And it honestly felt like the stars started at one foot and went all, arced in the sky and came down to my other foot. It was so dramatic and I’d never seen anything like it.

David Honeycutt [00:33:01] And you know, we’ve got dark sky designation on the North Unit also, so that, and very few places have that in the world and you know, you have to meet a certain set of conditions and that that dark sky condition exists up at that North Unit.

Lee Smith [00:33:16] And you need to maintain that condition.

David Honeycutt [00:33:19] You do. You do.

Lee Smith [00:33:20] So that’s where the Conservancy.

David Honeycutt [00:33:24] Yeah, That’s why you don’t want a bunch of wind turbines blinking at night. We did get one project coming there that’s on the highway coming off of 377 and we didn’t even know it was going in. So there are already 69 turbines but we’re hoping that’s going to be the end of it. And we’ve been resisting ever since.

David Honeycutt [00:33:42] You know, we’re not against renewable energy. We just think there’s better choices than wind turbines out there.

David Honeycutt [00:33:48] You know, it’s a it’s also an avian pathway. You know, birds migrate back and forth twice a year. Monarch butterflies – this is this is their their their habitual path every year, twice. And then there’s a huge population of, there’s a large bat colony on the northern part of the river. And then there’s a huge population of charismatic raptors that live there year round, you know, bald eagles and golden eagles and red hawks. And you see them all the time.

David Honeycutt [00:34:23] So, you know, they’re they’re often the casualties with wind turbines, you know, with the blades on the wind turbines. So that’s another reason we don’t want them there.

David Honeycutt [00:34:33] So compromise is, you know, we’re tolerant of solar projects. You know, if somebody has a piece of property and they’ve got to figure out how to make a living on it, we’d rather them put put a solar farm on it than cut it up into a bunch of little ranchettes.

David Honeycutt [00:34:50] So you got to pick, make your choices and pick your poison when you’re trying to protect an area like this, because there’s just not a lot of public lands in Texas.

David Honeycutt [00:34:59] So a lot of these, and that’s why what the Nature Conservancy’s been able to do in protecting a million acres is so important.

David Honeycutt [00:35:09] And the way we should think about that is it’s not a stop sign. It’s a foundation. And we have a lot more to do in the state. But that is a, that is a meaningful milestone. And that’s a lot of hard work over a lot of years to protect a million acres in the state of Texas, understanding that most of the time you’re dealing with private property.

Lee Smith [00:35:30] So how critical a tool is the conservation easement?

David Honeycutt [00:35:36] Well, it’s an important tool. And sometimes you pay for them, right? If the land, a piece of property, is significant enough and somebody wants to be paid to to protect that property for generations yet hang on to it. Sometimes there’s actual money that flows to families to do that. In the case of my conservation easement, I donated it. Many people do.

David Honeycutt [00:35:59] But they’re very important. You know, the the the most important thing, other than protecting the water resources, is also the reduction in fragmentation in special places like this.

David Honeycutt [00:36:12] I mean, if you see the Guadalupe River and the Frio River, they’re loved to death. But I mean, you know, they have been fragmented, you know, to, you know, half-acre and acre pieces of property all along it, you know, and all those septic fields that go with it.

David Honeycutt [00:36:25] So, you know, we were fortunately able to protect the Devil’s River in such a way where that won’t happen. It’s only in one area that I’m in and we’ve actually done a lot to make that area better, the people that live there with respect to the type of septic systems they have. And minor conservation easement work like I’ve done to defragment some of it.

Lee Smith [00:36:49] So how does Dolan Falls Preserve fit into the puzzle?

David Honeycutt [00:36:55] Well, it’s kind of the midpoint on the river first of all, as we think of setting away where the headwaters is. But like if you think of 163 and then you come down to the North Unit, which is right adjacent to to to the Dolan Falls Preserve.

David Honeycutt [00:37:18] So it’s it’s it’s the most charismatic part of the river because of of that cataract there that you know, it’s partially created by all that water resource that comes in there.

David Honeycutt [00:37:31] And it’s it’s a touchstone and a perfect place for TNC to bring people in first, to introduce them to to the Devil’s River. And there’s no more dramatic place to do that in than the Dolan Falls cataract there.

David Honeycutt [00:37:45] You know, and many people have have jumped off that and go swimming right below there. There’s a great swimming hole. There’s a place to stay there. So it’s an important place that the TNC has in its inventory.

David Honeycutt [00:37:59] And it, we use it a lot to introduce the river and introduce the notion of conservation and how important that can be. And it’s a great example for that.

David Honeycutt [00:38:11] It is the prettiest place on the river, in my opinion. You know, I of course, loved the part of the river where I am, where, you know, there’s less vegetation, and you get a vista. But in terms of what is uniquely there, it is probably the most dramatically pretty part of the river.

Jeff Weigel [00:38:33] Nice job.

Lee Smith [00:38:36] So what advice do you have for a young person that’s fired up that wants to get involved in conservation? What advice would you have for them.

David Honeycutt [00:38:45] Get involved now. You know, we, the only complaint I have about conservation and all my friends is we’re all getting a little long in the tooth, you know, and and there’s great leadership in our state. And, you know, as I mentioned about Carter Smith earlier, you know, he’s our lead conservationist in our state. But we need young blood. We’re trying to do that in the Devils River Conservancy, and I know at TNC in membership, because I’ve been helping there, we’re trying to, you know, get younger people engaged sooner.

Lee Smith [00:39:17] And the other really important thing is when you look at the population explosion that’s going on in Texas, if we don’t protect important properties in this next 20 years, we’ll miss the opportunity in some places. You know, I you know, I think there’s examples of areas where TNC in the Hill Country has been able to turn around some outcomes where there would have been these, you know, highly dense subdivisions going in right next to some some incredible, incredibly unique spring features.

David Honeycutt [00:39:56] Well, I don’t need then I don’t need to say anything.

Lee Smith [00:39:58] No, you’re just referencing it.

David Honeycutt [00:40:00] But that’s an example, you know. And those type of situations happen more and more. The bat cave, you know, the land around that, that was about ready to be a massive subdivision right along I-35. And that outcome was changed.

David Honeycutt [00:40:16] So I think you have to stay engaged. I think you’ve got to, we’ve got to educate younger people to the importance of it. And and thankfully, I see a lot of conservation-minded young people anyway. It’s kind of in their DNA. So I, I notice that a lot in young people here in Texas. So that’s encouraging.

Lee Smith [00:40:39] Well, I think you covered my last question, which is what’s your outlook on the future of conservation?

David Honeycutt [00:40:46] I’m optimistic, but I generally tend to be optimistic. You know, it’s not without hard work that you should be optimistic though. You can’t, we can’t sit on the sidelines and hope everything’s going to work out. You know, you have to stay engaged all the time, because there’s also people in Texas that, you know, I’m in the oil and gas community and and people say, “How can you be in the oil and gas community and still be a conservationist?” Well, you can.

David Honeycutt [00:41:10] But there’s a lot of guys in my business that aren’t. So I mean, it’s a, you know, it’s an ethic that you either have or you don’t.

David Honeycutt [00:41:17] So some people, all they see is commerce and opportunity, like they say, “Look at all this water down here in Val Verde County and nobody’s using it.” Well, guess what? We’re using it every day. We’re just not using it to run out of faucets in Midland, Texas. And don’t want to. And we’ll do everything we can to prevent that, by the way.

Lee Smith [00:41:41] Is there anything else you want to talk about? Anything?

David Honeycutt [00:41:45] You know, I am about ready to step off the board at TNC after nine years, and it’s been a real education for me. I came in, you know, really, you know, as a neophyte with respect to, you know, deep conservation understanding and I’ve been educated all along the way.

David Honeycutt [00:42:05] And the best part of TNC are the people that go to work every day and work for TNC – it’s the employees. They’re a fantastic group of people, fully dedicated to what they’re doing and do great work in this state. And I call many of them friends. So I think that’s probably the thing that’s been the best about being part of TNC is all the relationships and friendships you form and everybody’s pulling on the same end of the rope.