steroids buy

Joseph M. Heiser



INTERVIEWER: Thomas Kreneck and Nancy Hadley

DATE: August 14, 1983

LOCATION: Houston, Texas


TRANSCRIPTION: Trint, David Todd


FILE NAME: HoustonToad_JosephMHeiserJr_14August1984_OH314_MP3_HoustonMetropolitanResearchCenter.mp3

SOURCE: Provided courtesy of the Houston Metropolitan Research Center


Thomas Kreneck [00:00:04] This is an August 14th, 1984 oral history interview with Mr. Joseph Heiser, Junior of 1724 Kipling, Houston, Texas. The interview is being conducted by Thomas H. Kreneck and Nancy Hadley of the Houston Metropolitan Research Center. We have got about a month and you have to check.


Thomas Kreneck [00:00:26] Mr. Heiser. Let’s get a little bit of background about you, first of all. Where we born? When were you born? Where did you grow up?


Joseph Heiser [00:00:33] Right here. In Houston, Texas, on Washington Avenue. And the only home we lived in until I was in the mid mid-twenties. And then we moved over here. So we’ve really lived and only our families lived, really lived and only grew up two homes and whole family life.


Thomas Kreneck [00:00:58] When when were you born?


Joseph Heiser [00:01:00] I was born May the 19th, 1897.


Thomas Kreneck [00:01:03] So you’re a native born Houston?


Joseph Heiser [00:01:05] Oh, yes, that’s right. Let me have you left.


Thomas Kreneck [00:01:10] When did you all move over to here, to this area?


Joseph Heiser [00:01:14] I think it might have been 1928.


Thomas Kreneck [00:01:18] We’re Charles background. What was your family background?


Joseph Heiser [00:01:21] My my my brother’s father came from our church though rain. They were, they were well educated people and my father’s parents. And while his children would be raised an atmosphere of wild life which came over constantly raging so they don’t they don’t have that in don’t home and the others besides my father over to America. My father was educated for the priesthood and decided then decided he didn’t have a vocation, but it enabled him to be proficient in several languages. Was he? They said he spoke German and French, almost like a native. I don’t even speak good English.


Thomas Kreneck [00:02:16] But he. He spoke several. What what was a year? What did he do here?


Joseph Heiser [00:02:22] Well, he was, uh, most of his life he was in, in the tax and tax collectors impact assessor’s office. He was the chief clerk.


Thomas Kreneck [00:02:33] So you went to schools here in Houston?


Joseph Heiser [00:02:35] Oh, yes. Uh huh.


Thomas Kreneck [00:02:36] Well, did you graduate from high school?


Joseph Heiser [00:02:39] No, I was a dropout. I got a job during vacation going on at one of my vacations after I’ve been two years at Saint Thomas High School. And then I got a job in vacation, and I was, uh, too much tempted to stay and continued to earn money. And I had too many hobbies and one thing another, so I didn’t go back to school. The result is I’ve been going to school all the rest of my life. Every chance I’ve got to learn something about anything because of the fact that I didn’t continue school.


Thomas Kreneck [00:03:15] Yeah. You know, you’ve donated a very large amount of materials dealing with the circus to the Houston Public Library. And we’d like to know how you got started assembling this material. What was the genesis of this?


Joseph Heiser [00:03:30] Well, I think like so many young people at the time of my youth, the circus was probably the most fascinating event of the year. And it was held as long ahead of time and became a rival of Christmas as as fascinating by youth. I got till then, of course, I thought about the the circus. And then, uh, like so many others, I began began collecting things that would help me to prolong the pleasure of the circus. And that’s when I began, uh, gathering the gathering posters. And at that time, the circus had another thing. I think they still do it. They distributed what they called couriers, paper newspapers were hand and colored booklets ahead of time. And that was something to always look well, look forward to then that about the same time I began to continue prolonging the charge of the circus, I began taking pictures, and by the time I discontinued, I had a collection that thrived on my collection of posters and other stuff.


Joseph Heiser [00:04:51] And I contributed. I donated that collection of negatives to the Circus Royal Museum and Baraboo, Wisconsin, the biggest. The biggest establishment acting as custodian of the circus in the history of historical material but all but print a lot of those pictures of which they have the negative. Most of them are reproduced in the circus magazines of a real part of this collection that the library now has over 600. And they are particular interest because they they were taken at a time when the circus was undergoing transformation from the big, big draft. Houses were disappearing, the tents would disappear and the parade was disappearing. And at that time, I came along with my camera and got many of those things recorded when they were passing from the scene. So I imagine that my collection of photographs, in fact, the site has grown, while museum has told me that it’s much more valuable than many other things because no one has. No one else has had the same material that we did.


Thomas Kreneck [00:06:15] When did you do you remember when you first saw your first circus?


Joseph Heiser [00:06:20] It must have been around 1905 or something like that.


Thomas Kreneck [00:06:27] Here in Houston that he wanted the circus name.


Joseph Heiser [00:06:30] Yes, of course. The circus was a big event in those days of the Landis thing. I think that when I went to was a full upon Sal’s brothers. And and for Paul at that time was arrival of P.T. Barnum. And the sales brothers were rivals of of the Ringling Brothers.


Thomas Kreneck [00:06:50] So when did when did you first start systematically gathering the material, though?


Joseph Heiser [00:06:56] Oh, it’s hard to tell when they began gathering systematically, because I would when I was still interested, just casually, I would pick up something and keep it to look at and and enjoy. And I suppose it would be hard for me to tell. I guess I’ve been I guess I’ve been collecting more or less systematically for 50 years, but I never was really systematic. I never was a collector. Collectors will gather then because, well, you know, collectors are a breed, a separate breed. But I wasn’t gathering a cookbook collection. I was gathering to enjoy. So my collection, while not complete in any respect, is is very representative because it includes something of nearly every aspect of the circus.


Thomas Kreneck [00:07:53] Now you’re you’re when would you say the earliest documents in that collection are? When when when you think you first picked up something that’s in the collection now about when does it date from the 30.


Joseph Heiser [00:08:08] I suppose. I suppose maybe 1900 made in 1909, because I have some couriers I held with the circus, threw around the head in time that I saved. Then before I became aware of the fact that I was going to hold on to them, I just saved them because I enjoyed prolonging the pleasure of looking at the pictures and reliving those experiences I began about that time. And so the oldest thing in my collection are those old couriers. And I didn’t begin collecting posters until long, about or maybe 1900 in 1925, 26, somewhere along in there, when I would just pass a building that had one of these posters in the in the show window. And, and of course, the building was back and I’d go in and get them. And sometimes the whole building would the whole world would be empty and all of the windows would be covered with these posters sometimes. And maybe I’d get all maybe 15 or 20 posters from from one one showroom.


Joseph Heiser [00:09:27] And so consequently, some of the some of the very most interesting and colorful and perhaps valuable posters, I had three or four of maybe more than that.


Thomas Kreneck [00:09:40] So you’ve got some of the oldest stuff then dates back to the first decade of this century.


Joseph Heiser [00:09:46] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes.


Thomas Kreneck [00:09:50] Now, in your collection, we as we went over it, there is a book by P.T. Barnum on The Animals of the World. Now, what role did that play in your in your interest?


Joseph Heiser [00:10:01] Well. Of course it was. It all came along about the same time. But of course, it heightened the and heightened the interest because it was written as an adventure story. And at that time, it was one of the most authentic books on natural history because it told about the animals of the world. And they were pictured in these, I guess you could call them woodcuts. So that that started about the same time and general interest in the service, but it increased it because as you say, it was this book telling, purporting to be a story about all these animals that were in this circus were captured and each year each capture was made an adventure and the wonderful thing about it was it our job to describe the animals in the atmosphere and the so-called. So it was something I would say that was ahead of its time because that was a time when good material on natural history was very rare indeed. And this book was in a class by itself. It was written by P.T. Barnum. Of course, he had a ghost writer, but it has picked his picture in the front. And of course, his autograph and the fact that his name was on it added to the Jam book.


Joseph Heiser [00:11:31] How old were you when you got that?


Thomas Kreneck [00:11:33] I imagine maybe I was seven or eight years old when I first began to read that when I got the book by my uncle, a man who will understand, understood my fascination with the circus. At the time when I was able to read, they presented me with the book. That was when I got it. And of course then the whole thing took off. And because I had something that was that I could enjoy the circus and the atmosphere and the adventure and the curiosity all through the year until the time came when the posters on the side of the building appeared then and then the circus itself took over. In those days, they put up, I guess, I think they call them banners and that down in this part of the country the same because that came in the fall, September and October. But the banners appeared on the side of the building in the latter part of August. So that was one of the consolations for having to go back to school. At the same time that the vacation was over and I had to go back to school. Here was this these wonderful banners on the side of the building telling that Ringling Brothers Circus was coming with a polar bear pictured and a screaming tiger and all of that. So so it has been one of the fascinations of life. And an interesting thing about and I found that the others were there were others that had the bug just as bad as I did. That was just a part of that. And time went on. My collection was enlarged and made more varied because some of these people had posters that I didn’t have and I had them they didn’t have. So they exchanged and I picked up some things that I would never have gotten otherwise. They’d be posters for the 1898, maybe in early 1900, long before I began collecting. But I got them from these friends with whom I exchanged. And that business is still going on in the society that I see at the when the circus shows had at the summit. They have these these concession stand and known as had people going there and still the buying poster suggested that they can sell them the fascination has the color the fascination the the unique charm of the show that has never abated for most people, although it has changed so much.


Thomas Kreneck [00:14:16] That’s interesting. How has it changed?


Joseph Heiser [00:14:18] When people say now French is the biggest show of all, is now entirely indoors, the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus. But there are still other good shows. Constantly involved is another big show that shows in the tent and then travel from town to town on trucks instead of on railroad cars like the show refused to publish, but it did it. It has more of the old time atmosphere and charm, and you might call it mystique of the circus than the industry that has, because it still has the the tent going up like magic are springing out of the ground and then disappearing the next day and the animals around and the people and so forth. So that is being presented in some of the material in my collection is from these recent shows. Then I thought an interesting contrast between the sentences nowadays and what they were then. But I also showed how the the basic charm is still retained. The basic fascination for people.


Thomas Kreneck [00:15:33] One minute you have some questions you like to ask, Ms. Powers?


Nancy Hadley [00:15:38] Well, you’ve covered a lot of them. All. But I was kind of wondering, out of all the things in your collection, what means the most to you personally as well? What in your collection means the most to you personally? Is there one category?


Joseph Heiser [00:15:55] No, I know that sometimes. Cause of. I think the posters are the most interesting because they’re so large and colorful. But. But the booklets and. And the problems in one way or another are treasured because they’re so easily hallowed. You can look at them, and in time, you know, you don’t have to add. You don’t have to spread them out on the floor, on the table. And most of them contain a duplex. Lot of good books of the same material that’s on the posters. So that so that that gives them an added value.


Thomas Kreneck [00:16:42] Did did did did they in in Houston, where was the circus usually held? Where were the various circus held?


Joseph Heiser [00:16:53] Round at different in different places. Uh, uh, most of them in the areas of east of the way, the east area and then east of town. And then the for so many years when the big show, the Ringling Barnum said the show did show it on the parking lot of the the Houston Baseball Association when they had what they call at Buffalo Stadium. Yes. Won’t do that for several years. It tends to were pets there, but at other times they were scattered around. And I remember one time in particular that Buffalo Bills, uh, pitched his show on in an area between the angle of Washington Avenue and Heights Boulevard. And then it was a tremendous thing. And that was at the time when Buffalo Bill Cody was at the height of his success and fame. And I can’t remember what. I never will forget it. Uh, the Indians rode in in their feathers and so forth. And then there was then, then they had on that one. They live their life on the plane. They never had such a god. Yes. At the time they had on Buffalo Bill’s show, they would come riding out each year. And I think maybe he had 50, 50 Indians in addition to the cowboys and Mexican, uh, uh, cattle people and Cadillacs and one thing another. But I imagine they had 50 Indians from maybe ten or 12 different tribes and all of them in the, uh, in the most elaborate version of native costume that they could get. And I never will forget how fascinating it was to really one of the posters shows and shows the I forget what they call it, the big assembly woodcut. What brown.


Thomas Kreneck [00:19:01] About what year was that when Buffalo Bill came?


Joseph Heiser [00:19:03] That must have been. Oh I suppose he showed several times from around maybe 1908 by 815 or something like that.


Thomas Kreneck [00:19:13] And you then you saw those.


Joseph Heiser [00:19:16] Oh yes. And one of the reasons why I was so fascinated with it and show it on the on this lot at Heights Boulevard and Washington Avenue. And the parade came right down to Washington Avenue. And I hope and I can remember what a thrill that was to see these long lines of chiefs in their war bonnets and holding up their spears with eagle feathers, you know, like that. And the cowboys riding by and the old stagecoach and the covered wagon and the buffaloes and all of that. And that was so fascinating.


Thomas Kreneck [00:19:50] Did it come from downtown?


Joseph Heiser [00:19:52] It came from, from the lot at that when that cars were pitched at the angle of Heights Boulevard and Washington Avenue, they came on down to town. And so I got to see it twice when they were packing and going to town and then the paraded through the streets of town. And then they came on back and went back to the to the lot till that route. But but the the the crusade. This was the Wild West. The true circus never paraded by my home. There was one year that the Ringling Brothers got up that 10th and that same location, but that year they had a terrific downpour of rain and storm and they had to cancel the parade. So the only time in my life that that the circus parade would have passed my home was not because the weather man pulled the dirty trick. You did?


Thomas Kreneck [00:20:52] Did you pick up a piece of the the Wild West show material at that time? Did you get your you get your flower or whatever? You got it.


Joseph Heiser [00:21:01] At that time? I had I had and uh, I had gotten to really collect them the stuff. But subsequent subsequently I got several Buffalo Bills and 101 Ranch Wild left and some of them that were some problems and some of these things I mentioned as couriers that had dramatic and colorful information about what was to be expected when they saw the show. And so in information where it was going to be and who was in it and all of that. So those those things began to carry a greater and. Quite a few of those.


Thomas Kreneck [00:21:43] I see, but they’re basically the same things that they were passing out in Houston.


Joseph Heiser [00:21:46] That’s right. That’s right.


Thomas Kreneck [00:21:48] In fact, I noticed that was the interesting thing from our perspective, or one of the interesting things from our perspective is that your collection is mainly from Houston materials from that regard.


Joseph Heiser [00:22:00] That’s right. I think for that reason, it has added historical interest because it showed what was going on in Houston at that time.


Thomas Kreneck [00:22:15] Now, how was…


Joseph Heiser [00:22:16] One interesting thing about it, some of the posters have what they call the the date slips on them. In fact, Pat’s on the bottom, gladly set the date in the location, and those have extra historic of that. And some of them that they just put on the wall and there’s nothing there but the posters. But some of them had this additional location in time, information at the bottom, and those those are considered back. And let this have an additional value because they’re they are dated and they have a lot of the have a historical value that they did and then just a loose poster.


Thomas Kreneck [00:23:02] They locate the circus down.


Joseph Heiser [00:23:04] That drives the time and the date and the location. So this is.


Thomas Kreneck [00:23:10] In those early years, in those early years, when the circus came to town once a year. When you were a kid, was it always the same circus company?


Joseph Heiser [00:23:21] Oh, no. Oh, a different one. Usually. Usually we had two. Usually we had learned, even in those early days, these circuses would come. There would be little Ringling Brothers Circus and the Barnum Bailey Circus, which at that time owned both by the same people and the hours they did. One year, the Ringling Brothers Circus came here, and the next year in the Barnum and Bailey Circus and they they outdated around in the different locations. But also at the same time there was independent circuses with sales flow to the circus and hanging back rallies and algy blond and all of those. And I don’t know those. I got material with one kind or another that that’s that’s represented in the collection.


Thomas Kreneck [00:24:19] Were there any local circuses at that time, locally owned circus?


Joseph Heiser [00:24:24] Well, not really. And usually the the Christian Brothers Circus was located in South Houston that was owned by George Christie. But it was it was one of the medium size industries. And so he played he played the smallest town. But and and he had a very colorful show. And some of the best material in my collection is the material connected with his show programs and posters and one thing another. Now, I after a long years, Christie went out of the show business. I don’t know whether where the business went bad or not, but but in and in having grounds for his circus a great George Christie had a large acreage in south Houston.


Thomas Kreneck [00:25:21] Is that where he had that show?


Joseph Heiser [00:25:23] That’s where his headquarters was. How many of the buildings are still there? And they were very colorful. But the interesting thing about it was when after he had retired from the surplus business, they discovered oil in south Houston and and the multimillionaire that George Christie and never became as I said, this man he became as an oil man. But he never he never lost his enthusiasm. And he would sometimes be the guest at the circus fans convention and be the speaker and tell about the early adventures of the Earth.


Thomas Kreneck [00:26:01] I notice it was Christie brothers, but there really wasn’t.


Joseph Heiser [00:26:04] He was. That was one of the down. The brothers was the atmosphere.


Thomas Kreneck [00:26:10] It was just one Christie guy.


Joseph Heiser [00:26:13] There would be a Christie and he was enough to make a good compensate for half a dozen brothers. He had enough color and and charisma and personality.


Thomas Kreneck [00:26:28] Now, you know, you mentioned to me one time, Mr. Heiser, that the circus really got you interested or your interest in the circus, got you interested in conservation work.


Joseph Heiser [00:26:41] To a considerable extent. Of course, it was all glued together and so forth and so on. I have to say, I was I’m working. I was one of the founders of the Nature Conservancy. I was the only one south of the Mason-Dixon Line. That was an organization at the time that that so many of the spectacular natural features of the country were in danger of being lost and overdeveloped or something like that. And this organization was formed to get people to contribute and to buy some of those places and save them. Now, I’ve been in recent years, I’ve been working on a still working on that concept and working on a different concept that that we’re not going to be able to they’re just saving the special things isn’t going to discharge our responsibility as custodians of this nation’s natural beaches that we have to save something of everything. So let me see if. Will you go on that table that there’s a. What let me say that as as as the present day custodians of all the vernacular treasures and pages of this country are passing through our hands. And our responsibility is not to say what appeals to us, what happened to be best able to resist change, but everything that comes into our hands that we inherited from those ahead of us. It is our responsibility to save as much of those things that we can to pass and pass them on. And that’s what it says that I would have said.


Thomas Kreneck [00:28:42] Yes sir.


Joseph Heiser [00:28:43] And what along with I said it isn’t up to us to save the magnolias and the whooping crane. But the Houston toad and and the chinkapin tree and all of those things whatever belongs on the land as much as we can.


Joseph Heiser [00:29:07] We have got to save those things as they were, because, as I say, those are not ours. William Millet, Tennessee, a temporary. We were born here and live and die and the land is continued. And what what what Americans have after we are gone is in it is what we were large enough and smart enough and responsible enough to save. And that’s what I see. What it says. What brown. I think it isn’t up to us to say what we like or what what is best, but it is survive. But what ever belongs on the land. And what is everybody abiding heritage. That’s what we’ve got to save. And that’s my story I put that was that material for you. I would take a love when.


Thomas Kreneck [00:29:52] We definitely need a copy.


[00:29:55] Well, that’s a kind of identification.


Thomas Kreneck [00:29:57] Let me ask you this, Mr. Hatcher. You mentioned the circus as as the way you educated yourself. Was it an educational thing for you when you first started?


Joseph Heiser [00:30:09] Oh, yes. The circus was really and then during the day, the circus was most people don’t appreciate what an educational material it was. Many people, when the circus came to town and in those days it was a main feature and people came from all the surrounding towns to the big town. And in those days, quite frequently, they should have had a spectacle, a historical spectacle. Antony and Cleopatra, Julius Caesar, many other different things. And and from what this circus brought to them and many Americans got their first taste in the place, the interest in in the events of history/.


Thomas Kreneck [00:30:58] And the animals as well.


Joseph Heiser [00:31:00] And the animals as well in the big cities and brought these trains down. And well, I can never forget the belief that I saw a giraffe. It just I was spellbound that this animal was so different to that that had such a tremendous neck right by the side of the elephant, which has no neck at all. You just just think of what the structure of the giraffe must be that has a heart to pump blood all the way up to that head that made it three feet higher than the body. But what a remarkable creature it is. And then the. And the circus came around year after year, bringing all these wonderful things strange people, acrobats, animals, historical spectacles. The spectacle of the circus itself, which appeared out of the night on a vehicle that transformed it into a magic city and then faded away and disappeared. And next did it. That whole thing was that people would get up early in the morning and remember the crowds gathered while the circus was on. Unloading the whole saga from beginning to end was a fascinating thing when they fell in love. It still, with all the wonderful things that we have now, is the television then, and the sport in one building is filled with circuses that still those activities had its ancient allure. But it’s interesting isn’t it?


Thomas Kreneck [00:32:31] It really how it how it was. It’s interesting to me how it serves as an education event.


[00:32:41] To try that drive to.


Thomas Kreneck [00:32:43] To get a young youngster involved in in in in things like conservation and appreciating animals.


Joseph Heiser [00:32:53] And the universe, the animals and the people.


Thomas Kreneck [00:32:58] They these earliest circuses say like 1910, 1912. How close to downtown were they set up? Do you remember that?


Joseph Heiser [00:33:08] Yes, I can remember. You know how the Second Presbyterian Church is on Main? Mm hmm. There’s a vacant lot there. And for several years, the circus set up there. And where the YMCA is now, the new YMCA building. Before it was there, there was a tailor school and before the Taylor School that was a big vacant land. And for many years, the circuses showed right there. They were just just clowns to just the circus that was just a stone’s throw from the center of town.


Thomas Kreneck [00:33:48] Nancy, do you have any any other questions? No, I think we’ve covered just about every break in.


Thomas Kreneck [00:33:57] I believe we have. How old are you now?


Joseph Heiser [00:34:01] 87.


Thomas Kreneck [00:34:03] And I’ve asked you this question before again.


Joseph Heiser [00:34:08] Sometimes I don’t blame myself, because, as I say, I don’t believe that could be 87 years old. All those years I never expected to live to be 87. And I was one of the things I sometimes mention is that the, uh, the used in, in my class at the St Thomas High School. Absolutely. I thought that not a single one I’m living now. I was letting them on and of course I was like that ever everybody in my family, they were really the cell when I was living in this house when. Now. Now na it’s down to one on antique.


Thomas Kreneck [00:34:54] Well, I’ll tell you that, that your collection is really a magnificent contribution as well. Public library. We’re really the more we’re arranging it now, the more we see the and the value of it.


Joseph Heiser [00:35:09] I’m glad that you’re taking the whole thing, because as then there are also interrelated, you know, this is a little plague over there, a stand up thing. We have to cut our pasteboard figure. There’s there’s that that instead of that, they didn’t have it didn’t permit them to put it in the window. They would put it on the on the floor of the window. And it was a stand up period that when all of that now particularly particular you have a large chimney, large figure. You remember that one of them lion tamer. A lion tamer and and the lion cub king. That that’s reproduced from a poster. Well, now you’re going to you’ve got to hold on to that, because that’s an item, that area. And the collectors, they come they’d come in the place and steal it right out. Oh, I’m going to make under your nose because as, say, because there were so few of them and they’re so desired by collectors who need them to go on to go to complete that collection.


Thomas Kreneck [00:36:18] Now, these stand up things, where do they put them? The posters they put up on the wall where.


Joseph Heiser [00:36:23] Sometimes the window would, uh, once protrude, you know, it would be a one, it would be out and they would be a broad. And that just set that thing up on the on the floor.


Thomas Kreneck [00:36:38] Now, would you just go to the businesses and ask them if you could have them.


[00:36:41] When it was over and they were going to go? They were glad because another lots of times I went in and in a vacant building and picked them up off the floor where they had pulled them down. And just on my side the same way.


Thomas Kreneck [00:36:58] Now, would the posters put up with a glue? Are.


Joseph Heiser [00:37:02] They they had little little gold snips that they would they would press in the they were prepared to do it quickly, you know, because they said this advertising car would come to town beforehand one or two days and then have to do all of those different things for the advance publicity of the circus.


Thomas Kreneck [00:37:29] Well, I have no further questions right now.


Thomas Kreneck [00:37:32] Do you have any, Nancy?


Nancy Hadley [00:37:33] No.


Thomas Kreneck [00:37:33] I mean, Mr. Heiser, we really appreciate you. If we think of any others, we’ll come back and ask you.


Joseph Heiser [00:37:40] Something as you see all that stuff over on the table. Yes. Sometimes you’ll have to when you have someone available to get it. There’s one batch of stuff that belongs to the circus dope.


Thomas Kreneck [00:37:50] Okay.


Joseph Heiser [00:37:51] And then the rest of it is that wonderful San Diego Zoo publication. I don’t think any other I don’t think the library here has it.


Thomas Kreneck [00:38:02] Well, we’re we’re prepared to take material today, if you’d like, if it would be all right.


Joseph Heiser [00:38:07] Yes.