Conservation History Association of Texas
Texas Legacy Project
Oral History Interview
Nature Conservancy in Texas
Interviewee: Marshall Ayres Bowen
Date: August 19, 2022
Site: Austin, Texas
Reels: 4044-4046
Executive Producer: Lydia Saldana
Producer: Jeff Weigel
Field Producer / Chief Interviewer: Lee Smith
Videographer: Curtis Craven
Writer / Editor: Ron Kabele
Transcriber: David Todd / Trint
Item: Bowen_Marshall_NCItem4_AustinTX_20220819_Reel4044-4046_Audio.mp3
[Numbers refer to transcript time codes]
Lee Smith [00:00:15] So where did you grow up?
Marshall Bowen [00:00:17] I grew up here in Austin, Texas. I was born in San Antonio, but moved here when I was two. So Austin’s really home, grew up in central Austin, but spent a lot of time out here at the ranch. And those are some of my fondest memories are being here on the ranch.
Lee Smith (interviewer) [00:00:35] Well, that kind of goes into my next question. What are some of your early remembrances of making a connection out here?
Marshall Bowen [00:00:45] I describe this ranch as kind of our family living room. You know, so many memorable moments in our lives for myself and my three siblings occurred here on the ranch. You know, I learned to drive on the ranch coming down the down the ranch road. My Uncle Bob taught me how to drive a stick shift on an old jeep on a back road.
Marshall Bowen [00:01:04] Some of my earliest times, memories of swimming were in the creek at the swimming hole.
Marshall Bowen [00:01:09] I proposed to my wife just off of a bluff here from the house. So all of these.
Marshall Bowen [00:01:14] I celebrated my high school graduation here.
Marshall Bowen [00:01:16] You know, all of these kind of momentous moments occurred at the ranch. And that’s, to me, one of the most special things and important things about the ranch to me is that it’s this grounding place for us, that this is where I got to experience these these momentous experiences in my life and have such cherished memories from those moments, but but those are amplified by the fact they occurred here. And I look forward to my children getting to have the same experiences here on this ranch.
Lee Smith [00:01:44] So place me where you are in the hierarchy of this of this family.
Marshall Bowen [00:01:52] Yes. So I’m I’m Vera Ayres Bowen’s oldest son. So Vera and Bob are the two children of Pat and Bob Ayres. And Pat, my grandmother, her father, Fred Shield, purchased the ranch, this ranch, in 1938.
[00:02:08] So I’m what we call it, what we call in the family, Gen 4, you know, the fourth generation. And then my daughter Atlie is the 1st of Gen 5. And so I sit kind of, you know, the up and coming generation, if you will, of those of us that are getting involved in the future of the ranch.
Lee Smith [00:02:31] Was there a family mentor or a teacher or a mentor or even a ranch hand that inspired you or gave you a connection early on to to nature?
Marshall Bowen [00:02:43] Yes, definitely. A few people come to mind. My mom has always had a really beautiful love of nature, and she instilled that in me from a really early age of just the healing power of being outdoors, the the importance of preserving our common world and and really just the joy that comes from being outside. So that was taught in me at a really early age.
Marshall Bowen [00:03:05] And then as I got older, I, I kind of developed an interest in hunting and fishing and being outdoors in that capacity. And I had a couple of mentors over the years who kind of taught me about that.
Lee Smith [00:03:18] One in particular is our late ranch foreman Trace out at Cherry Canyon, our family’s ranch in the Davis Mountains near Fort Davis. And Trace, Trace’s dad worked for my great grandfather out at the Cherry Canyon Ranch, which is our property out there. And Trace had just this incredible love for that property. And he worked on that ranch from when he was a kid up until he tragically passed away a couple of years ago.
Lee Smith [00:03:41] And Trace taught me a lot about hunting and about kind of surviving in the in the wild. And I had a lot of respect for Trace.
Marshall Bowen [00:03:48] So there, and the ranch hands here, too – Sonny, who was the long-time ranch foreman here at the Austin ranch, taught me a lot about hunting and the outdoors. So those are kind of the people I’d credit with those experiences.
Marshall Bowen [00:03:59] What was special about my experience in nature is that it happened so organically that I was like, I describe this as kind of being our family living room, that this was just part of my life and it became who I am is being outside and caring for the outdoors and helping to protect places like this for future generations. So I think all of my influence and and my love for the outdoors really grew from my personal experience with my family right here on the ranch.
Lee Smith [00:04:27] So you’ve just answered my next question, which happens a lot.
Marshall Bowen [00:04:32] I read ahead.
Lee Smith [00:04:35] Which was, “How does growing up in this family influence you?” So what does this ranch mean, I mean you again, you’ve answered this question.
Marshall Bowen [00:04:46] Yeah, I can try to give you a few more little like sound bites.
Lee Smith [00:04:49] What does this place mean to you?
Marshall Bowen [00:04:52] Yeah. So this ranch is, I think, really a unique piece of property in the state of Texas. There’s few places this close to an urban hub like Austin, Texas, that are protected in the way that the Shield Ranch is. And this is 6800 acres of contiguous protected open ranchland.
Marshall Bowen [00:05:11] And that is so important in our state and in our country right now to have this kind of level of protection on this land.
Marshall Bowen [00:05:18] And so, you know, growing up out here, I didn’t fully, you know, we we entered these easements with the Nature Conservancy and the City of Austin in the late ’90s and early 2000s. And, you know, I was nine and ten when those occurred. And I didn’t have a full appreciation of what, how momentous of a step that was.
Marshall Bowen [00:05:37] But now that I’ve grown up and I’m working and I’ve gotten involved in other conservation efforts around the state, I’m able to look back and see what a profound decision that was to to to make the commitment then that we’re going to protect this land forever.
Marshall Bowen [00:05:53] And then to follow that up with the with the commitment to share this place with others. And to me, that’s what gets me so excited about the future of this ranch is that I have such fond memories and such special moments here, and I can’t wait to share those with other people.
Lee Smith [00:06:08] That’s a word that your grandma and your uncle have used repeatedly in the last couple of hours is the word, “share”. Why is that important and why is it important to your family?
Marshall Bowen [00:06:27] Yeah, I think there’s a couple of reasons why this is so important to my family. I think one, is stewardship has been a really important virtue that my grandparents have modeled for their entire life of of being a good steward of what you’ve been fortunate enough to have.
Marshall Bowen [00:06:44] And so, for me, part of stewardship is how do you share that with others and how do you benefit the lives of others with the with the resources you’ve been entrusted with? And so for me, I think stewardship is a big part of why we want to share it, because we see that as part of stewarding this property.
Marshall Bowen [00:07:04] But personally, I think that there’s a lot of people who don’t have access to this kind of place in our in our world. And for me, like I explained earlier, these experiences outdoors and in nature have been so transformational in my life and have molded me into who I am today, that I want everyone I can encounter to experience something like this.
Marshall Bowen [00:07:25] And so if we have this remarkable piece of property this close to a bustling urban hub of Austin, I want to get as many people who don’t have the opportunity to be in true open space to get to experience that.
Marshall Bowen [00:07:37] And so the programs we’re launching at the Shield Ranch with the Campsite at Shield Ranch, with El Ranchito, and with other opportunities for groups to come, we’re really opening up this place to the greater city of Austin and to folks from all over the state. And to me, I think that’s what gets all of us in our family really excited about the future of the ranch.
Lee Smith [00:07:57] Well, and to have these campers who become counselors and continue your vision. What’s that like?
Marshall Bowen [00:08:12] Yeah. It’s been really fun to see El Ranchito campers grow up to to not only want to come back to camp each summer. You know, we’ve been running El Ranchito for 15 years, and a significant portion of our campers are repeat campers. To see them keep coming back year after year and then to say, “Oh, now I want to be a counselor. And now I want to, not only that, but then now I want to go into a field in conservation.”
Marshall Bowen [00:08:35] We had a counselor this summer who’s headed off to Duke to study environmental science. And so I think that is that is the perfect example of the success of El Ranchito, right, is that you take a take a student or a child who has limited exposure to the outdoors. They come to El Ranchito, they experience living in nature. They get to see the bugs crawling, and the leaves whistling, and the creek running.
Marshall Bowen [00:08:59] And then that instills in them a desire for that each year. And then they keep coming back and then they want to help others experience that. And then they want to not only do that, they want to make a difference in their community in this space.
[00:09:11] And to me, that’s that’s the success of El Ranchito.
Lee Smith (interviewer) [00:09:15] Well, but it’s the success of the vision.
Marshall Bowen [00:09:18] Yeah.
Lee Smith (interviewer) [00:09:19] Of this family.
Marshall Bowen [00:09:20] Yeah. Vision is a great way to describe it. You know, you have to have pretty remarkable vision to see back in the early ’90s when Austin is just this kind of quiet college town. I was here in the ’90s, you know, it was, it was the UT campus town. And, you know, Mo Pac wasn’t that congested. And if you tell newcomers to Austin that today they would think you’re crazy.
Marshall Bowen [00:09:39] You know but to see that in the ’90s, and really for my great grandfather to see in 1938 that this would be a place that would provide so many opportunities for his children and grandchildren and great grandchildren to steweard.
Marshall Bowen [00:09:51] But really, I give a lot of credit to my mom and my uncle and my grandma and my grandpa for having the vision in the late ’90s to partner with the Nature Conservancy and with the City of Austin to say, “We’re going to protect this space.” And that one day this is going to be a truly unique place in our community. And it and it turns out they were right.
Marshall Bowen [00:10:12] One thing I really respect about my my grandparents and my mom and my uncle is they’ve always been committed to engaging the next generation. They see that it’s part of their job of stewarding this ranch to engage and include our generation and future generations and hopefully sharing in their vision for this ranch.
Marshall Bowen [00:10:30] And and so part of that was having these family retreats, these kind of visioning retreats where we all got together and we shared sometimes very different feelings about the ranch, different perspectives about the ranch. But at the end of the day, we were able to agree on core things that we wanted to protect about the ranch and the direction we wanted to take the ranch.
Marshall Bowen [00:10:52] And to me, that’s a really difficult exercise. You know, you imagine doing a strategic plan with your your co-workers, right? I mean, that can get tense. But at the end of day, you go home and you’re not you’re not family. When you when you try to do a strategic planning exercise about a shared family asset with multi-generations of family members with differing views and life experiences, it’s really difficult and a lot of families shy away from that. You know, they they say, “I don’t want to. That’s too dicey. We’re not going to talk about that kind of stuff.”
Marshall Bowen [00:11:19] So I really commend my family for pushing through that and pressing into that. And for me at least, I always felt that what I, my views were heard and I wanted what I thought the ranch should be doing was taken into account. So I’ve had a tremendous amount of gratitude for the engagement of my generation in the future of the ranch.
Lee Smith [00:11:46] So, I assume you’ve been … you’re an Austin boy?
Marshall Bowen [00:11:51] Right.
Lee Smith [00:11:51] I assume you’ve been to Barton Springs?
Marshall Bowen [00:11:53] Yes.
Lee Smith [00:11:54] And what kind of connection and feeling do you have when you’re hanging out in Barton Springs with your toes in that cold water?
Marshall Bowen [00:12:04] Yeah. My first thought when I get in Barton Springs is, “Man, I wish the swimming hole on the ranch always was like this.” But because our swimming hole at the ranch is contingent on rain. And so this summer it’s been pretty, pretty dry.
Marshall Bowen [00:12:15] But but when I get into, when I step into Barton Springs, it’s fun to think about all where this water has traveled, this water’s been on a journey from the headwaters not far from the ranch here. Trickling through roughly six miles of the ranch and then making its way into the springs.
Marshall Bowen [00:12:29] And to me, that kind of brings this whole idea of sharing the ranch full circle. You know that Barton Springs is kind of this communal gathering place, almost like a city of Austin living room.
Marshall Bowen [00:12:38] Well, here we have, you know, 15 miles away, our family living room. And what we’re starting to do is starting to share that with the community. So I, I really love thinking about this connection between the Creek and Barton Springs and what we’re doing here now. It kind of brings this into that full circle idea.
Marshall Bowen [00:12:55] And, and I also think about when the rain is, when we do have rain, and the creek’s flowing and sometimes we’ll be in the swimming hole and we’ll see someone come kayaking down through the through Barton Creek. And, you know, they’re working their way through to Barton Springs. That doesn’t happen very often because very rarely is Barton Creek such that you can kayak the whole creek. But every now and then that happens. And so I think that just kind of goes back to the idea that we, we, we want to share this place.
Lee Smith [00:13:28] So how do you regard conservation easements? You’re a lawyer.
Marshall Bowen [00:13:32] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:13:33] I’m not sure what field of law you’re in.
Marshall Bowen [00:13:35] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:13:36] Are they still a useful tool?
Marshall Bowen [00:13:38] Yeah. I think conservation easements are one of the most important tools to protecting open lands in Texas and across the country that we have at our disposal. I learned about conservation easements probably earlier than most people, when I was 10 or 11, and and I’ve been fascinated with them ever since.
Marshall Bowen [00:13:57] You know, as a lawyer, I, I don’t practice in the area of land use, but I am familiar with a lot of the legal concepts surrounding conservation easements and the and the value they add in, in the legal framework, but also in the conservation context.
Marshall Bowen [00:14:16] And my interest in conservation easements has led me to be involved in land trust. I serve on the Board of Texas Agricultural Land Trust or TALT, which, like the Nature Conservancy, is another land trust. And and through my work on TALT, I’ve really helped educate landowners about the value of conservation easements. And in doing that, I get to draw on my family’s experience in working with the Nature Conservancy, another land trust, and the value that we’ve seen from our use of conservation easements.
Marshall Bowen [00:14:47] I think a lot of landowners don’t understand exactly what a conservation easement is. So I think there’s a fair amount of education to be done of of explaining that these are helpful tools. They’re critical to helping keep spaces in our state preserved and then also for helping with generational planning.
Marshall Bowen [00:15:05] You know, if you have a vision of keeping a ranch open and and and preserved for generations, a great tool to do that is a conservation easement. And you can you can use that tool while earlier generations are still living to make long-term plans for the family.
Marshall Bowen [00:15:23] And so I, I encourage everyone to to to learn about conservation easement easements and continue to advocate for their role in the broader conservation conversation.
[00:15:33] Certainly land trusts like TALT or the Nature Conservancy will will advocate for the use of conservation easements because that’s part of their mission.
Marshall Bowen [00:15:42] But when a landowner is is struggling with what to do with their land and how to steward it through generations or how to preserve it in perpetuity, and when those landowners kind of are facing those same questions that you faced, that’s really where the most, I think, impactful collaboration happens because that landowner says, “Hey, I’ve been thinking through this, like, what did you do?”
Marshall Bowen [00:16:04] And I’ve had multiple conversations with landowners, kind of my generational colleagues and other landowner families. And I’ve I’ve shared with them how much we’ve enjoyed and how much we benefited from utilizing conservation easements.
Marshall Bowen [00:16:18] And so I think I think they’re growing in reputation and people are aware of them. But there’s still a lot of landowners who are unaware of of how they might be able to fit.
Lee Smith [00:16:28] Well and how adaptive they can be.
Marshall Bowen [00:16:31] Yeah.
Marshall Bowen [00:16:32] Yeah, there’s certain. I think there’s a there was a stigma for some time that conservation easements were where this huge limitation on the use of your land and that these were like, you know, kind of restricting our use to to nothing, you know.
Marshall Bowen [00:16:45] But that’s just not the reality. You know, conservation easements can be flexible. You can have ability to build more structures. You know, there’s a lot of room to tailor the conservation easement to your specific needs. So I think trying to kind of dispel those rumors or or reputational, you know, you know, erroneous reputation about them is important.
Lee Smith [00:17:07] So why is research important here at the ranch?
Marshall Bowen [00:17:12] Yeah. So I think, again, thinking about the proximity of the ranch to the city of Austin and to various ecosystems in the Hill Country and to the Edwards Aquifer and the Barton Creek watershed, just kind of the geographic position of the ranch opens up a lot of possibilities for research.
Marshall Bowen [00:17:31] And proximity to the big two major research universities. You know, University of Texas is 15 miles away. Texas A&M is, you know, a couple of hours away. Both have big research programs that overlap with what we do at the ranch. So I think proximity is really important.
Marshall Bowen [00:17:45] And then just to have a piece of property that’s 6800 acres that is entirely preserved and has been so since essentially since my great grandfather purchased the ranch in 1938. And we’ve had, and we’ve done a lot in the last 20, 30 years in terms of brush management and wildlife conservation, biodiversity work and water quality.
Marshall Bowen [00:18:04] But but it’s, you know, we still have this long history of protecting this land. And so I think and we’ve seen researchers are interested in that, this kind of unique position of the ranch.
Lee Smith [00:18:22] Your educational program. I’m thinking with, you know, the casita.
Marshall Bowen [00:18:26] Yeah. The campsite, the campsite.
Lee Smith [00:18:30] La Ranchita.
Marshall Bowen [00:18:31] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:18:31] And the campsite. Why are those so important?
Marshall Bowen [00:18:34] I think one thing we’ve learned over the last couple of years, especially going through the Covid pandemic, is that people really crave time outdoors. And there’s so much transformational learning that occurs outside. You know, people were cooped up in their homes for a long time. And and being outdoors is is so rejuvenating to people.
Marshall Bowen [00:18:56] And so I think you see this this move to look for outdoor education in our in our school districts and in our summer programs. And so I think, my hope is, that the Campsite at Shield Ranch will provide this perfect home for this exact kind of outdoor education.
Marshall Bowen [00:19:14] And and that’s most on display during the El Ranchito summer camp in the summer and with full programing for kids through elementary, middle high school.
Marshall Bowen [00:19:26] And then but then you look to the rest of the year, you know, that’s just a couple of months in the summer. But then the rest of the year we have an opportunity for all sorts of groups, for other schools, for church groups, for nonprofits, for corporations, you know, for anybody who has a desire for true outdoor, immersive programing to come use this facility. I think we’re I think we’re primed for the right time for this kind of experience.
Marshall Bowen [00:19:50] Every time I drive on to the ranch, I just kind of feel this this sense of relief, you know, that I’m kind of here at home and and it’s peaceful and it’s quiet and that and that is the beauty of this place.
Marshall Bowen [00:20:02] And so I think when people, when people come to the ranch for the first time and they drive in through the ranch and they drive a couple of miles down the road and now you’re in the middle of the ranch and there’s no cars. You know, there’s no, there’s no one calling you. I mean, you have some cell service, but by and large, it’s pretty quiet.
Marshall Bowen [00:20:19] People just kind of seem to let go a little bit. And I think that and just kind of be here present in the moment. And I think that kind of experience is what we’re really able to offer anyone who comes to the ranch.
Marshall Bowen [00:20:31] And so I think, again, the more people that we get to bring out here and experience this, I think we’re just helping to make the world a little bit better of a place through that.
Lee Smith [00:20:45] So how do you see your role here? I mean, you’re the fourth generation. And you’ve had and you’ve been part of this vision and everything. But there’s also some expectations that I would think and I mean, do you feel pressured or do you feel inspired or, I mean…
Marshall Bowen [00:21:07] Yeah, I think I, I feel inspired by by my grandparents and my mom and my uncle’s work. And I feel empowered by them to continue carrying on this idea of stewardship and this vision that they’ve set for our family. And so I feel excited. I feel willing to to help in the ways that I can and really grateful for this unique experience of growing up in a family that has this commitment to stewarding their natural resources the way they do.
Marshall Bowen [00:21:42] And so I, going forward, I look to be as involved as I need to be in managing the ranches and caring for this and hopefully continuing the legacy that my grandmother and my grandfather and my mom and my uncle have created in the way that they’ve stewarded this ranch.
Marshall Bowen [00:21:59] And I hope that my kids will share this same ethos of caring for our common world and caring for the outdoors and sharing it with those who otherwise wouldn’t have an opportunity. So for me, that’s how I see my role and my vision.
Lee Smith [00:22:18] Excuse me. So, what is your favorite place here? Is there one?
Marshall Bowen [00:22:26] It’s difficult for me. It’s difficult to identify a favorite place on the ranch. There are so many places that have such special memories on the ranch.
Marshall Bowen [00:22:35] I think I have to say that the bluff that’s a few hundred yards here from the front door of the ranch house that overlooks Barton Creek and some pastures beyond it, which is that where I proposed to my wife, I think that that has to be my favorite spot for that reason.
Marshall Bowen [00:22:51] But also the swimming hole, which is just below the bluff. I’ve spent so many wonderful summer days in the swimming hole and even got to take my little girl out there last summer to see. And and it’s a really special place to be standing in the in the creek in the swimming hole.
Lee Smith [00:23:10] Is there a special time of year that you like.
Marshall Bowen [00:23:13] When there’s water in the creek is my favorite time of year. So that we just had a we were in the midst of some much-needed rain here in Austin in August. So hopefully it’ll come back.
Marshall Bowen [00:23:23] But but you know, it’s the devastation of the drought we’ve had in the summer of 2022 has been on full display here at the ranch. And it’s just it’s so evident of the need to continue to preserve the watershed and natural places like this, because you just, you look out over Barton Creek, if you walk to that bluff, and just look out and you see it’s just completely dry. And that’s so damaging to the to the biodiversity and ecosystems that rely on on the water in the creek. So I think my favorite time is when there’s water in the creek.
Lee Smith [00:23:57] But I got to tell you, as bad as the drought may be, the stewardship that you all have done here for so long, this land will bounce back.
Marshall Bowen [00:24:07] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:24:08] You know.
Marshall Bowen [00:24:09] No doubt. And I think that’s a great example of of how really thoughtful and thorough stewardship can help you weather significant events that come, whether it’s natural or in your family, you know, really thinking through and making difficult decisions and and working hard to to steward a property like this and to do it in the way that our family’s done it, really prepares you for for really difficult moments like the drought we’ve been experiencing.
Lee Smith [00:24:41] We we came out and shot some B-roll, I think, on that bluff.
Marshall Bowen [00:24:44] Yeah. Probably so.
Lee Smith [00:24:46] Down in the creek and everything. And I just kept walking around going, I can’t believe I’m in this habitat in Travis County.
Marshall Bowen [00:24:51] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:24:52] Because it’s just, you know, it’s it’s been stewarded so well.
Marshall Bowen [00:24:55] Yeah.
Lee Smith [00:24:58] So what advice would you have for young people if they were considering going into conservation?
Marshall Bowen [00:25:08] Yeah. So my advice for young people going into conservation is two-fold.
Marshall Bowen [00:25:14] One, if you’re if you’re in a position where your family is is stewarding a ranch or is thinking about stewarding a property like this, really think about the long-term use of that property and how you want, what what your vision of that branch is.
Marshall Bowen [00:25:34] For a long time, I think a lot of people have ranches and and they don’t really think too far down the line. And my advice is think about what tools might you utilize to really preserve this as an open place. You know, people who who own ranches often love the fact that this is an open and protected place. But if you don’t have mechanisms that really, truly protect that ranch, then it may not always be that way.
Marshall Bowen [00:25:59] And so I think thinking about conservation easements, thinking about what’s your vision, kind of like what we’ve done here is a really helpful exercise. And that exercise might not lead you to a conservation easement. But I think it’s important to think about that.
Marshall Bowen [00:26:13] If you’re thinking about a career in conservation work. I think that’s a wonderful calling. And I think we need more young people, now more than ever, to engage in in our collective efforts to to care for the outdoors. And I always think if I wasn’t a lawyer, I would have loved a career in conservation because I can’t think of anything more fun than spending your working hours not in an office.
Marshall Bowen [00:26:38] But but I encourage you to, you know, I’m an Aggie, so I have to talk about, you know, think about A&M as a great program for that. But just think about early on, what are some experiences you can get that would set you up for working in that field?
Marshall Bowen [00:26:52] We have an internship program here at the ranch where we have college students who come work in the summer, and that’s a great opportunity to learn about what’s a career field in conservation look like.
Marshall Bowen [00:27:02] I’m optimistic. I think maybe that’s because I’m always a glass half full kind of person. But but in just my daily conversations about talking about the outdoors and about the importance of caring for caring for our land and our water and our wildlife, I think people agree with that. That’s a that’s common ground.
Marshall Bowen [00:27:23] You know, I think there’s a lot that we disagree about in the world right now, but I think we can find some common ground on caring for our common home. And I think that is is so important.
Marshall Bowen [00:27:34] And I love getting to share our story with a diversity of people who have no experience with land stewardship or conservation to people who are deeply devoted to that. And I love just being able to connect with them on some piece of what we’ve done at the ranch, whether it’s hunting or swimming in the creek or protecting wildlife and native grasslands, whatever it may be. There’s so much that we can find in common about caring for the outdoors that I love talking about it.
Marshall Bowen [00:28:05] So I’m optimistic. And I think the as younger generations have gone through the pandemic and have come out of it and have have this kind of perspective about the the importance of being outside and being outdoors, I’m optimistic about the future of conservation in Texas and across the country.