Conservation History Association of Texas
Texas Legacy Project
Oral History Interview
Nature Conservancy in Texas

Interviewee: Robert Potts
Date: September 7, 2022
Site: Davis Mountains, Texas
Reels: 4185-4188
Executive Producer: Lydia Saldana
Producer: Jeff Weigel
Field Producer / Chief Interviewer: Lee Smith
Videographer: Curtis Craven
Writer / Editor: Ron Kabele
Transcriber: David Todd / Trint
Item: Potts_Robert_NCItem21_DavisMtnsTX_20220907_Reel4185-4188_Audio.mp3

[Bracketed numbers refer to the interview recording’s time code.]

Lee Smith [00:00:16] Where did you grow up?

Robert Potts [00:00:17] Grew up in Corsicana, Texas. I moved around a little bit. But most of my growing up was in Corsicana, Texas, up in north Texas.

Lee Smith [00:00:24] And did you graduate from Corsicana High School?

Robert Potts [00:00:29] No, I went to high school in Georgia. We moved to Georgia when I was a sophomore in high school. And so I graduated from high school in Columbus, Georgia, and then came back to the area, and I went to college at Baylor in Waco.

Lee Smith [00:00:43] And what did you study at Baylor?

Robert Potts [00:00:44] History? I studied history and Russian.

Lee Smith [00:00:48] Russian. Can you say something in Russian?

Robert Potts [00:00:53] [Russian phrase]

Lee Smith [00:00:56] I’m not going to ask you what you told me to do, but. So, and then what happened?

Robert Potts [00:01:02] So then I went to law school. I went to Columbia University Law School in New York City. And my wife, who is also from Corsicana, also went to law school there. So we got married while we were in law school and then moved to Houston and both took jobs at big law firms there. She was at Vinson Elkins and I was at Baker Botts. And practiced law there for a number of years.

Robert Potts [00:01:26] But in the course of that, I knew I really kind of wanted to go into conservation. And I got a chance to apply for Associate Director of Land Protection at the Nature Conservancy, interviewed with Jeff Weigel and James King. And they hired me in 1993 to do land protection work at the Nature Conservancy. Moved to San Antonio at that time.

Lee Smith [00:01:50] You kind of dovetailed right into, you know, question five. But we’re going to back up just a little bit.

Robert Potts [00:01:58] Okay.

Lee Smith [00:01:59] So just think back. What are some of your earliest recollections of of, as a kid, of making a connection with nature?

Robert Potts [00:02:11] Well, my family, my dad’s family, had gone camping at this place on the Nueces River ever since he was five years old. They had rented or leased a piece of property on some private land there on the Nueces River, not too far from Uvalde, a little town, Camp Wood, up in that area.

Robert Potts [00:02:33] And so from my earliest memories, I remember going camping there. It was pretty primitive. You know, we brought in, we slept under the stars on cots, and we brought in our stove and everything. I think there was one spigot where you could get water that was potable. The rest of, you know, hauled water up from the river for washing dishes and everything else. So it was pretty primitive camping. But it was something our family did. It was part of his family’s tradition and my cousins and uncles and, you know, grandparents and stuff.

Robert Potts [00:03:03] So did that from a very, very early age under these big pecan trees on the banks of the Nueces River. Fished, squirrel hunted, that type of stuff. So that’s really was my introduction to the outdoors and, you know, in the most meaningful way.

Lee Smith [00:03:20] Was there any individual, a family member, a classmate, any teacher or anyone?

Robert Potts [00:03:28] It’s more my dad. My dad really introduced me to the outdoors, taking me hunting. You know, we lived in Corsicana. We’d go. He had a little place. We’d go duck hunting, we’d dove hunt and those types of things. And then and then the the time camping. So it was more my dad that really introduced me to that.

Lee Smith [00:03:47] Do you have any siblings?

Robert Potts [00:03:49] I have a younger sister.

Lee Smith [00:03:51] Was she into it as well?

Robert Potts [00:03:52] Not as much. No. I mean, you know, I think she was fine, but she’s she she’s a university professor. She never really went to the outdoors much.

Lee Smith [00:04:02] And what about, was there anything in popular culture, any kind of, any book that kind of inspired you, or a magazine or a movie or anything?

Robert Potts [00:04:12] Well, I read “Walden” when I was in high school, and I found that to be really inspirational. And then, you know, once I started working in this field, I read “Sand County Almanac” by Aldo Leopold. And that, you know, is a great 20th century version of “Walden”. You know, I mean, they both, I mean, it’s different, but same theme. And that was also very inspirational.

Robert Potts [00:04:39] And then it’s been interesting, you know, our 21st century version of Walden and Sand County Almanac is this “Braiding Sweetgrass” book that has become very popular, written by a Native American scientist and has done a beautiful job.

Robert Potts [00:04:55] And it’s interesting to me, you have each century, you have kind of a book that, at least to me, kind of expresses the conservation ideals and the importance of it in different ways to different audiences. But the themes are pretty consistent. So those three books have all inspired me. So there’s been lots, of course, but those three are the ones I would I would point to.

Robert Potts [00:05:16] How did the South Padre Island Laguna Madre Project come about?

Robert Potts [00:05:21] Well, it started long before I was at the Nature Conservancy. James King and others had been talking with the owners of this 25,000 acres that’s on the north part of South Padre Island. So, you know, you know, the way South Padre Island is laid out, you have the town down there kind of at the south, and there’s that road that runs up the island. And then the road just kind of stops.

Robert Potts [00:05:48] And so basically from there to the Mansfield Cut is undeveloped and and was owned by a company that wanted to, that had plans to do a huge coastal development.

Robert Potts [00:06:03] And so I don’t know how long ago, but certainly before I started in 1993 at the Nature Conservancy, they were talking to him about buying it and they were reluctant to do that. And and so it never really went anywhere.

Robert Potts [00:06:15] And then as so often happens with these projects, they come back up. You’ll have a project. It doesn’t work for whatever reason, and then years later, it’ll come back up.

Robert Potts [00:06:27] And sure enough, James was invited to to a meeting with the American General folks. I don’t remember the exact year. Probably early 2000s, somewhere in there. And they said they would be willing to sell it.

Robert Potts [00:06:44] And so we had this opportunity to buy it. And it was, I don’t remember the exact price, but it was in the $300 an acre range and maybe maybe high three hundreds.

Robert Potts [00:06:56] And so all the sudden, boom, we had this chance to buy it. And, you know, the issue was we had never really, a lot of projects we would buy for our own preserves and things.

Robert Potts [00:07:07] This one was one that was really needed to be a partner project, or what we call a co-op project, with with a public agency because it’s a beach, it’s, you know, it’s area that that that would really be more appropriate for, may need law enforcement from time to time. Just more appropriate for a public agency.

Robert Potts [00:07:26] And so we, since it just kind of came out of the blue, we hadn’t really done that that groundwork to, you know, to find our partner and get them engaged. The logical one in this case was the US Fish and Wildlife Service. They owned, they owned Laguna Atascosa, across the bay, on the on the mainland side of the Laguna Madre.

Robert Potts [00:07:47] And so we approached them about it and they were interested, you know. We went, I remember James and I went up to Austin and met with them and they were interested and met with Jeff Haskett, their person who was in charge of all of that.

Robert Potts [00:08:03] And they said, “You know, we haven’t done this. We haven’t done this. You know, we’ve got to we’ve got to get this approval. We got to do this. Well, you know, you can’t go out and buy this because we’re not going to have, you know, the paperwork done that we need and the approvals done that we need to take you out of it, to be able to buy you out.”

Robert Potts [00:08:21] Which is the typical way we had worked with them. We would get it all set up and then we’d buy the property. And then when they could do it, they would take us out of it, buy it from us.

Robert Potts [00:08:32] And they said, “We haven’t done that. You can’t, you know, you can’t go forward with this.”

Robert Potts [00:08:35] And I told him, I said, “Look, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. This will not come around again. We’re going to go forward with it. We hope you’re our partner. But one way or another, we’re going to buy this land and we’re going to get it conserved.”

Robert Potts [00:08:50] And so we went out front. We took some pretty big risks there and went out front and bought the property.

Robert Potts [00:08:57] And Fish and Wildlife Service and Jeff Haskett, you know, they worked on it and they got the approvals that they needed.

Robert Potts [00:09:05] But then we had to get the funding from, it has to be appropriated from Congress.

Robert Potts [00:09:10] And this 25,000 acres wasn’t the, wasn’t in a continuous block. There were a big chunk and then there would be a blank. There were other private holdings in. And then there would be more. But it pretty much controlled the area from the end of the road up to Mansfield Cut.

Robert Potts [00:09:25] And and one of the owners in there did not really, did not want this to go to the Fish and Wildlife Service because recognized that they wouldn’t be really able to develop their property.

Robert Potts [00:09:41] And so they fought it pretty hard. And, you know, to the point that, you know, they’re almost taunting us, saying, “You know, we’re going to get this killed, you’re never going to get it, get it done. We’ll show you.” You know, I mean, it was it was really kind of an odd situation.

Robert Potts [00:09:56] But we stayed after it. And Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison became a champion of this. She saw the value of it and she got it in the appropriation bills to get the property purchased from us and and put into the National Refuge system.

Robert Potts [00:10:12] So it’s now part of the Laguna Atascosa Refuge.

Robert Potts [00:10:15] And it’s just, you know, Laguna Madre’s such an incredibly unique and important resource. And this was a critical component of protecting it because otherwise that whole, you know, whatever it is, miles and miles of of beachfront and Laguna Madre frontage would have been developed. And now it’s and now it’s set aside forever.

Lee Smith [00:10:40] But what is so special about that? I mean, what are some of the specific things that are some of the features and maybe even some of the species? I mean, we’ve got the Ridley sea turtles.

Robert Potts [00:10:52] You’ve got the sea turtles that come in. One thing that’s really special about the Laguna Madre is that it has the seagrasses there that are still intact. It’s, you know, it’s mostly a, you know, I don’t want to use the term pristine, but it’s a fairly untouched system because on the mainland side, you have the King Ranch and other big ranches that are undeveloped.

Robert Potts [00:11:14] And then on the on the Gulf side of the Laguna Madre with the barrier island that we that we bought is is primarily undeveloped. Now from the town of South Padre up to the Mansfield Cut is is in National Refuge. And then from the Mansfield Cut up to Corpus Christi is all part of the National Seashore.

Robert Potts [00:11:36] So so you’ve got really protected land on the barrier island side and you’ve got these big ranches on the mainland side. And so that creates a system that’s that is, you know, operates pretty much like it operated for a long, long time.

Robert Potts [00:11:51] And and the diversity of wildlife and the diversity of fish and marine life is just really spectacular.

Robert Potts [00:11:59] It’s a hypersaline bay. It’s one of the few hypersaline bays in the ocean. That means the water saltier than the ocean water. And that creates a unique ecology.

Lee Smith [00:12:10] How does this kind of speak to the Nature Conservancy’s goals? Some people would think, “Oh, they’re trying to buy up, you know, get their own property and, you know, turn it into these, you know, where nobody can do anything.” But this was a situation where you saw something that was unique and an opportunity. And then it’s been passed on.

Robert Potts [00:12:35] Right.

Lee Smith [00:12:36] You know.

Robert Potts [00:12:37] And it’s in public ownership. And so it’s it’s, you know, and of course, the beaches are open to the public under the Texas Open Beach law. So it’s not like it’s been walled off or anything. But it can be managed in a way that’s that’s compatible with its long-term ecological health.

Robert Potts [00:12:53] And, you know, and that’s that was the Nature Conservancy’s approach, is to identify these areas that are biologically very important, ecologically very important, and figure out what’s the what’s the way that they can continue to function.

Robert Potts [00:13:05] Sometimes it is a preserve that’s, you know, that has limited access. Sometimes it’s a public park land, sometimes it’s actually working with the private landowner on their continuing, enhancing their their what they’re doing management-wise. It just, the strategy depends on the site and depends on really who’s involved with it.

Lee Smith [00:13:28] But the overall goal is?

Robert Potts [00:13:29] Always ecological integrity and biological diversity.

Robert Potts [00:13:33] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the wonderful things about work doing conservation work in Texas is that, you know, we have this huge border with Mexico, and these ecological systems, of course, don’t stop at the border. So it it was imperative that we work with partners in Mexico to to achieve the ecological objectives that we that we shared.

Robert Potts [00:13:53] And the partners in Mexico are just fabulous – Pronatura Noreste, the universities, the conservation folks I’ve worked with in Mexico are just so dedicated and work so hard. And so it was a real pleasure to be able to work with them.

Robert Potts [00:14:07] And, you know, Rosario Alvarez was at Pronatura Noreste. She later started running the Nature Conservancy’s Mexico program.

Robert Potts [00:14:16] Ernesto Enkerlin was in charge of the national protected areas there. I had studied with him at Texas A&M University.

Robert Potts [00:14:23] Anyway, they they have a little bit different system of working. They have, they declare areas protected areas. And then that kind of creates kind of almost a zoning type of regulation over them.

Robert Potts [00:14:36] And so we worked with with our Mexican partners to get several areas that were of mutual interest in our ecosystems declared protected areas.

Robert Potts [00:14:46] Jeff Weigel can tell you a whole lot more about that because he worked with it directly. And he was he was the staff person from the Texas chapter who was really involved most directly with the Mexico work. But there was some great work done across the border, mostly by our Mexican partners with a little bit of help from us.

Lee Smith [00:15:04] Okay. Okay. So how did the Mad Island project, Mad Island Marsh Preserve, come about?

Robert Potts [00:15:09] Mad Island Project happened over a number of years, starting before before I joined the Conservancy in 1993. Clive Runnels had transferred part of the ranch that he had down there to be a Wildlife Management Area that Parks and Wildlife owned. And so they, I think the Nature Conservancy was the intermediary. But Parks and Wildlife bought part of that ranch to be the Wildlife Management Area that is there.

Robert Potts [00:15:46] And then a few years after that, I believe around ’89, Clive gave another 3100 acres of it to the Nature Conservancy. It was mostly wetlands. Some of the islands on the other side of the barge canal. And so we had a 3100-acre preserve next to the state Wildlife Management Area.

Robert Potts [00:16:11] And then when I started in 1993 as Associate Director of Land Protection, one of the first projects that I was assigned to work on was working with with Clive Runnels to acquire the remaining part of the ranch that he owned. There was about 3900 acres.

Robert Potts [00:16:28] And we we worked on that. And he was very charitably inclined, but he needed to get some return on it. So we worked out a deal where he would donate half the value and we would pay for half the value.

Robert Potts [00:16:43] And so Jim Bergen, who was the manager of the Mad Island Marsh Preserve at the time, worked really hard to put together a grant to the National Wetlands Council for the half, for the amount of money we were going to, we were going to pay Clive.

Robert Potts [00:17:00] And so you needed a match. And so Clive’s donation was a match. And then we got the cash for the other match and that that proposal was accepted and we were able to buy the other 3900 acres, which was mostly prairie, some wetlands, but a lot of prairie. And add that to the 3100 acres we already had and create about a 7000-acre preserve there, which is right next to the State Wildlife Management Area.

Robert Potts [00:17:25] So together, those are a really nice, big conservation area. And it’s been one of our premier projects on the Texas coast, a lot of wetlands restoration, prairie enhancement, and it’s just, it’s a beautiful, beautiful marsh. It’s a beautiful prairie and a great example of, of Texas coastal ecological riches.

Lee Smith [00:17:50] What riches are there? Some people think of a marsh as being, you know, a swamp and, you know, kind of a wasteland. But but what’s…

Robert Potts [00:18:01] What’s so what’s so beautiful about Mad Island is the things that grab your attention. The first is the birds. The number of birds and the variety of birds is there. And virtually every year (I haven’t kept up with recently), but virtually every year they it’s the number one Christmas bird count in the country in terms of diversity of species. And, you know, that’s just kind of an indication of how rich it is.

Robert Potts [00:18:28] But, you know, at night I’ve been there when the sandhill cranes and the snow geese and the other waterfowl are coming in to the lake there at the marsh to spend the night. It’s a magical, magical experience to hear them coming in and their noise. And it’s just it’s spectacular.

Robert Potts [00:18:48] But also the prairie, the grasses which are greatly underappreciated, but are very diverse and the wildflowers that are there.

Robert Potts [00:18:56] You know, if you like forest, that’s not where you go. But but if you value bird life or prairies or marine life, fishing is fantastic there. All of those things are really, really rich.

Robert Potts [00:19:08] The coast, the Texas coast, is a is an amazing resource that I think doesn’t get the attention that it needs nationally or worldwide. I mean, because there’s so much that happens there from a from a biological perspective.

Robert Potts [00:19:23] I mean, it’s important for bird migrations that are coming across, coming across from Mexico, going up into Canada and the northern part of the US, and they fall out there in the spring and then come back through in the fall.

Robert Potts [00:19:35] It’s important for the wintering waterfowl and for the wintering birds. It’s just a spectacular rich place that’s really one of the ecological gems of the whole of the whole country.

Robert Potts [00:19:47] And you’ve been kind of talking about the apex fauna there. But there’s this. They wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t a whole.

Robert Potts [00:19:57] Yes. I mean, you know, the invertebrates, insects and marine invertebrates and everything are just are rich. That’s why that’s why the birds are there.

Lee Smith [00:20:07] And it’s a nursery for a lot.

Robert Potts [00:20:09] Of of course. I mean that’s the it’s where the fish will come in to spawn. It’s, you know, it’s important for the coastal fishing industry far beyond the boundaries of the of the preserve, you know, the benefits that it provides for the Gulf of Mexico and everything that happens along there.

Lee Smith [00:20:30] And don’t these lands also, you know, help stem, like when a hurricane comes in, the the the what is it, the flood?

Robert Potts [00:20:40] Well, wetlands wetlands are incredibly important for absorbing the energy from from hurricanes and other storms. And, you know, it’s been the loss of wetlands that have made our storms, and the loss of oyster reefs and other kind of natural barriers that are there, that have made our storms more dangerous than they already are.

Lee Smith [00:21:03] And then you can get into carbon…

Robert Potts [00:21:06] Oh, yeah. Marshes are incredibly important as sinks of carbon. And there’s some real interesting work now going on on the Texas coast on how how that can be utilized to help alleviate some of the climate change concerns that we all have.

Robert Potts [00:21:23] How has the Nature Conservancy supported that kind of research?

Robert Potts [00:21:26] You’re going to have to ask Jeff Weigel and others about that. That’s been that’s all been stuff that’s kind of come on since my tenure. I left in 2004.

Lee Smith [00:21:39] Let’s just go, let’s cover a little bit. Because after you had a life after the Nature Conservancy. In fact, I met you. And where did you go after the Nature Conservancy?

Robert Potts [00:21:51] So after I left the Nature Conservancy, I went to be general manager of the Edwards Aquifer Authority because it became pretty clear to me when I was at the Nature Conservancy that water was going to be the issue really in natural resource management in Texas. And the Edwards Aquifer Authority had been really, and was and is, at the forefront of really kind of developing the water law, particularly around groundwater, in Texas.

Robert Potts [00:22:19] And so I was the general manager there starting in 2004, and I did that for several years, kind of helped finish up the permitting process that they did for the groundwater wells and kind of got some of the management in place to administer the permits and the reductions that you have to do to the permits when you’re into drought.

Robert Potts [00:22:44] And then there was some big legislative issues we had to get resolved. The enabling act for the Edwards Act Authority had a conflict in it. At one point, it basically guaranteed a certain amount of water rights to historic water users. But in another part, it limited the amount of water rights that could be issued.

Robert Potts [00:23:03] And so the two were in conflict because if you followed if you followed the the law on issuing the water rights, then there were more water rights than this other part of the law said could be issued.

Robert Potts [00:23:15] And so depending on where you were on that divide, whether you were a landowner who wanted the water rights, or you were a downstream person that wanted the water to stay in the aquifer and go through the springs and support the endangered species and all the downstream users, you had a very, you pointed to different parts of the law. And both of them were both of them were there. They were just in conflict.

Robert Potts [00:23:35] And so the Edwards Aquifer Authority for the first ten years of its life had had to kind of manage through that. But we needed to get that that issue resolved and we were able to get that resolved in 2007, in Senate Bill 3. I was able to work on that and get that issue resolved and kind of then kind of set the stage for the Edwards to do what it needed to do in managing the managing droughts and managing water permits going forward.

Lee Smith [00:24:03] And then we had a more kind of localized deal with the Edwards Aquifer Protection Program.

Robert Potts [00:24:10] Right.

Lee Smith [00:24:10] So how did that.

Robert Potts [00:24:12] Well, that was one of the things that bridged my time between the Nature Conservancy and the Edwards Aquifer Authority was in 1999, probably before that, we started started working with Bonnie Conner and Susan Hughes and a group that she had put together, or they had put together, to to buy land over the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone, to protect the aquifer, protect the water source for San Antonio and for the and for the region.

Robert Potts [00:24:43] And so we got involved. I started going to those meetings. I was state director at the time and we got involved, helped do some of the polling of the of the populace and put it on the ballot.

Robert Potts [00:24:54] I believe it was ’99, put it on the ballot for the for the citizens of San Antonio to decide whether they were willing to tax themselves an extra eighth of a cent sales tax to buy land over the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone.

Robert Potts [00:25:12] And while our polling had showed that people really understood that there was an aquifer there, and the national polling people we brought in said that people aren’t going to know this word. They’re not going to know what an aquifer is. They’re not going to what the Edwards Aquifer is.

Robert Potts [00:25:24] And we said, “Oh, no, they will because they hear about it every night on the news. What the aquifer level is. They know that’s where their water comes from.”

Robert Potts [00:25:32] Sure enough, there is a high literacy in San Antonio about where their water came from and where the aquifer was. And our polling was showing there was a good, really strong support for for taxing themselves to protect it because they understood where their water comes from. And, you know, people want to have good water.

Robert Potts [00:25:49] Unfortunately, it was an election. It was just bonds and tax initiatives that were on this election. It was in May. And so, you know, all the kind of the anti-tax people show up for these kind of low turnout elections. And we figured we’re going to we’re going to lose.

Robert Potts [00:26:07] And there were like 10 or 12, I don’t remember, propositions on the ballot. One was for one was for rail, which is typically fairly unpopular. You know, there were other other things and there was the one for the sales tax to buy land over the aquifer. And there was one for a trails program along the creek for a sales tax for that.

Robert Potts [00:26:34] And those are the only two out of the 10 or 12 that were on the ballot that passed.

Robert Potts [00:26:39] And and so that started the program. Initially, the state law was such that that type of sales tax could only be used within the county. So the first round, we only really bought land around the Government Canyon State Park that was that was had been established a few years before and bought a number of tracts around there with the first group of money.

Robert Potts [00:27:03] But then we went back to the to the voters several more times to ask them to renew the sales tax because it was a limited term. And they, every time, they they voted overwhelmingly to to do it.

Robert Potts [00:27:16] And so the state law was also amended so that we could spend the money outside the county and we were able to buy important recharge features all the way out west.

Robert Potts [00:27:25] By that time, by the time we were into the second or third, I was general manager of the Edwards Aquifer Authority at that point. And so instead of being on kind of on the Nature Conservancy side, where I was kind of helping generate the money and and our land protection people were out negotiating contracts, at that point, I was managing the Aquifer and I was one of the members of the Conservation Advisory Board, which the city had set up to kind of advise the city on which which tracts to buy.

Robert Potts [00:27:58] And Deirdre Heisler, who was chair of that committee, and and I and Bonnie Conner and a number of people that really did a lot of hard work on that committee, really were able to, I think, help the city spend their money, really get the most bang for their buck and spend it wisely.

Robert Potts [00:28:19] We we really targeted buying conservation easements because you could get more land protected with conservation easements. We looked at some areas that were a little further west where you could get more land, where land was cheaper and but was really important for the recharge. Bought some land, you know, out in Uvalde County and Medina County and really I think got a lot of good land protected. And so it was fun to be able to work on it consistently, but in different capacities, over the years.

Lee Smith [00:28:55] Roughly how much land has been…

Robert Potts [00:28:57] You know, I don’t know the figures. You know, they’re still buying land now. And so I haven’t, I’ve seen the figures and it’s just been a while since I’ve been working directly with it. So I don’t remember those numbers. But it’s it’s been a lot of land and there’s more that needs to be done. But it is a tremendous success story. It’s, you know, I think it’s one of the, you know, two or three most important conservation achievements during my career that I’ve seen happen.

Lee Smith [00:29:27] Sometimes it seems like, you know, with the Nature Conservancy, you’re kind of alone or in meetings doing things with individuals and and whatnot. But to have the voters and to have such a buy-in from the public at large on that project, how satisfying was that?

Robert Potts [00:29:53] Well, it was very satisfying to have the public understand, because sometimes you feel like we’re doing things, you know, that aren’t appreciated or aren’t aren’t really understood, you know. But when it comes to water, people get it a lot. It’s it’s very visceral. It’s a very organic kind of connection we all have with water.

Robert Potts [00:30:18] And so people are willing to to really pay a bit more attention to that. It’s a little harder to get them pay attention to prairies. But but water is something that people really pay attention to. And it was you know, we were based in San Antonio, lived in San Antonio. So it’s it’s nice that your fellow citizens there are supportive of the work you’re doing.

Lee Smith [00:30:40] Then you know, hopefully, if their awareness is raised to the value of conservation in one arena, it may extend to prairies.

Robert Potts [00:30:50] Right.

Robert Potts [00:30:51] Exactly. Exactly. You can you can you know, when you start paying attention to water or you start paying attention to birds or you start paying attention to trees, it kind of opens you up into paying attention to more things.

Robert Potts [00:31:03] It’s always, it’s it’s important to have something to kind of focus on and pay real attention to. It’s kind of hard to get it if you just go out and and just kind of look at it generally, although that’s beautiful. But if you really kind of going to go to the next level, you kind of need to pay, you know, what kind of tree is this or what kind of bird is this or what type of insect or butterflies is this? And then that kind of then moves you along, getting more and more educated.

Lee Smith [00:31:34] So here we are at the Davis Mountain Preserve. How did this place come about?

Robert Potts [00:31:42] Well, the Davis Mountains project is one that had been in, had been thought about, dreamed about, for a long time at the Nature Conservancy.

Robert Potts [00:31:51] The Davis Mountains is one of three sky islands really in Texas. The other two are in national parks, the Chisos mountains down in Big Bend, and the Guadalupe Mountains in the Guadalupe National Park. The Davis Mountains is between those two. And is really the third sky Island.

Robert Potts [00:32:07] And sky island is just, you know, a term that refers to the fact that these mountains that are kind of coming, that are much higher than the surrounding landscape, and therefore have a biological diversity, that the surrounding landscape, that’s really unique, because a lot of these still have some of the same plants and animals that they would have had in the ice age. And it’s because it’s cooler, they’ve been able to continue on after, you know, in ways that they haven’t been able to further down elevation where it’s gotten warmer.

Robert Potts [00:32:38] And so, the Davis Mountains has been an important project. You look at the early Nature Conservancy priorities, it was one of the ones that was really high on the list. Jeff Weigel and James King had been working and thinking and strategizing on it for a long, long time.

Robert Potts [00:32:59] And we were fortunate in that the highest elevation part of this of this sky island was was in one big ranch called the You Up You Down Ranch, owned by Don McIvor and his sisters.

Robert Potts [00:33:12] And James King, who was Director of Land Protection, had developed a relationship with with Don and had kind of let it be known that if if and when Don ever became, and his sisters, became interested in selling, we would like to buy buy the property because it’s it was so unique and it was one of the most unique places in the state.

Robert Potts [00:33:35] And that opportunity began to show up in 1995. Don said that he thought that they were getting close to being willing to to to buy the property.

Robert Potts [00:33:49] About that time, we had a change in in leadership. I became the Interim State Director in the Fall of 1995, and then in March of ’96 became the the the permanent or regular State Director and moved from interim status to to regular status. And this was all happening at that at that time.

Robert Potts [00:34:15] And one of the problems we had was we were not in very good financial position at that time. We had taken on a lot of debt, we were running operating deficits.

Robert Potts [00:34:26] And so now all of a sudden we have this opportunity that we had been wanting for years and years and years that was going to cost about $10 million. And we have a new state director. I was unproven. And we have a number of debts that we’ve been carrying forward for a while and operating deficits, which the national office doesn’t like.

Robert Potts [00:34:50] And so the question is, are we in a position to take on this, because the landowners’ seriously considering it and we need to tell them whether we’re interested in working on it or they need to look for somebody else.

Robert Potts [00:35:03] And so James had done a great job in working with the landowner and in kind of setting it up, but we had to have the board’s support and we had to have the organization support to do it.

Robert Potts [00:35:17] So we, one of the things we we did in the spring of ’96, we decided to have this was we were going to put it in front of the board whether they would support going forward with this negotiation and acquisition.

Robert Potts [00:35:32] And so we decided to have out here at the preserve where we are right now, we decided to have our annual meeting here on that weekend and have our board meeting out here on that weekend. And we were going to have the board meeting up at up at the Observatory. And I think it’s House A which has this beautiful view of the Davis Mountains.

Robert Potts [00:35:53] So we’re going have the meeting there. And, you know, we’d have all the members out here and just kind of build excitement for how important this project was because Jeff and James and I and the staff really wanted to do this project.

Robert Potts [00:36:06] But we had to convince the board and the national organization that we could pull it off. And like I said, you know, I was new and we had we had we had a lot of a lot of debt.

Robert Potts [00:36:17] So we had planned that for in May. And we kind of kind of build the momentum and put it in front of the board. And we thought we could do it.

Robert Potts [00:36:24] Well the week, I think it was Monday morning before the before the before the annual meeting and the board meeting that weekend. So, you know, like five, six days before, I go out and pick up the San Antonio Express-News. And the headline says, you know, I don’t remember the wording, but basically the Republic of Texas had had started their revolution out here.

Robert Potts [00:36:53] And so the Republic of Texas was this group, Rick McLaren, who who declared himself ambassador of the original Republic of Texas, and that the annexation of Texas had been illegal. And he was the government for the original Republic of Texas.

Robert Potts [00:37:09] He owned property just on the other side of the of the ranch that we were looking to buy. In fact, it abutted the ranch.

Robert Potts [00:37:17] And he had been kind of making problems out here before – contesting land titles and things like that, and was kind of an anarchist force out here.

Robert Potts [00:37:26] Well, he got into, he kidnapped one of his neighbors, got into a fight with one of his neighbors, and held him under gunpoint. And the law law enforcement had been kind of, you know, figuring something was going to happen, but he kind of provoked it.

Robert Potts [00:37:43] And so they did had a standoff up there. And and so we had all the law enforcement from all over the state coming here to and, you know, back up to this piece of property. And, you know, they were blocking off the roads. And Rick McLaren had put a call out for his supporters to come in and bring in reinforcements. And it was just kind of an anarchist, you know, mess.

Robert Potts [00:38:08] And this and we were getting ready to take, you know, have an event out here with hundreds of people. And so so that kind of put a problem with those plans.

Robert Potts [00:38:21] And so we had to change plans at the last minute, postpone the annual meeting, move the board meeting to Houston. Carol Dinkins, who was on our board, made available a conference room there in downtown Houston. And so we had had the board meeting there and discussed the project there. Very different setting than than out here and not in not not a particularly auspicious circumstance.

Robert Potts [00:38:51] So we got into the board meeting. This was actually my, I believe, my first board meeting as the regular state director. And we had to convince the board to trust us enough to take on this project.

Robert Potts [00:39:06] And the board did their job. I mean, that’s what the board’s supposed to really take those questions seriously. And we had a a full discussion about it and some board members were more cautious than than others. And and I wasn’t really sure which way it would go.

Robert Potts [00:39:22] And then, Victor Emanuel, I believe you may have, he may have told you about this, but but Victor Emanuel raised his hand and said, I think he stood up. I think he actually stood up is the way I remember it.

Robert Potts [00:39:38] But anyway, he said to the board, he said, “This is the most important project that the Nature Conservancy could do in Texas.” He says, “If you have to sell every other preserve you own to do this project, that’s what we need to do.” And the board said, “Oh, okay.” And they all voted to do it.

Robert Potts [00:39:58] So and, you know, through the generosity of our donors and the good work of the staff, we got it done and it was really kind of a turning point for the chapter in taking on a whole lot more risk and taking on and buying a lot of land then in the late ’90s and the early 2000s when when land was was less expensive.

Robert Potts [00:40:20] So that was a that was a big turning point. And I will always be grateful to Victor Emanuel for for helping that happen.

Lee Smith [00:40:28] And what about Anne and Jane?

Robert Potts [00:40:32] Anne and Jane were the ones who really made us be able, because we we decided to buy it, but it wasn’t real clear how we were going to do it. Were we going to keep the, keep the land or were we going to, or were are we going to find a conservation buyer and sell it with a conservation easement on it?

Robert Potts [00:40:55] Because like I said, we were in not great financial shape at the time. So we, you know, we had made the decision at the board meeting that we were going to protect the land, but how we were going to pay for it was still up in the air. We could have gone a number of different ways.

Robert Potts [00:41:08] We were committed to not sell it to one of our conservation partners, you know, like the Fish and Wildlife Service or the Park Service or or the State Park, because that was very much against the will of the will of the community. They were in fact, that’s what they were concerned we were going to do, that we were going to turn it into a state park and they did not want that or a national park. They did not want that.

Robert Potts [00:41:34] So that was one avenue for doing this that was not on the table. We had said we weren’t going to do it. We weren’t going to do it.

Robert Potts [00:41:41] We’re going to do it with private money.

Robert Potts [00:41:42] But whether we were going to keep it as a preserve or whether we were going to sell it to conservation buyers was still up in the air.

Robert Potts [00:41:50] And then and so what we ended up doing was some of both. And through the generosity of of of the Schweppes, Jane and Anne, we were able to buy, pay for, really the upper part of the ranch. The ranch was really in three parts. And we were able to pay for the upper part of the ranch and gave us enough momentum that we felt like that we could raise the rest of the money to keep this part of the ranch.

Robert Potts [00:42:19] And then the the lower part of the ranch, which was ecologically not as significant as this higher elevation part, we sold to conservation buyers, subject to a conservation easement.

Robert Potts [00:42:30] So we were able to use both strategies. And Anne and Jane really kicked that off and really made that possible. And James did a great job of working with them. And James really brought that gift in.

Lee Smith [00:42:49] So why are these other parts important? You had the main part of the ranch, but there are other parcels that have been. Why was getting those protected important?

Robert Potts [00:43:00] Well, what you, it’s important to have, to preserve a landscape to the extent you can. And so the preserve, as big as it is, I don’t know, I think it was 11,000 acres, something like that. It’s changed depending on, with some additions. But, you know, that’s that’s significant.

Robert Potts [00:43:19] But what’s important is the whole landscape and the ability of animals to move and birds to shift around depending on, you know, where the best habitat is and and to to look at this at a landscape scale.

Robert Potts [00:43:33] And so to be able to conserve the remaining remaining area even maybe it’s not as biologically significant in terms of number of species, but it’s biologically significant from the whole landscape operating and continuing to support these species on the core preserve is significant. So we’ve been able to over the years really add a number of lands into our conservation easement program and help secure the the really the core area.

Lee Smith [00:44:04] So it’s kind of a buffer.

Robert Potts [00:44:06] It’s a bit of a buffer, but it’s important in and of itself. But but it is it does provide, it provides the way for the landscape to keep functioning in a way that the core area can keep functioning in a way. The landscape, if you end up with, you know, development all around this core area, then that’s going to change the core area.

Lee Smith [00:44:30] Do you have a favorite place here?

Robert Potts [00:44:34] In Texas or in the Davis Mountains?

Lee Smith [00:44:36] In the Davis. At this preserve.

Robert Potts [00:44:40] Oh, wow. There are so many wonderful places in this in this.

Robert Potts [00:44:47] You know, one of the things that’s most magical to me is, is being kind of up further up the mountain where Madera Creek is flowing and when there are just some areas up there where Madera Creek’s flowing through the mountains and you’ve got the pines and and that, that I that I go to, there’s, if you drive up there, there’s this one area with some real flat rocks and everything and there’s often pretty waterfalls and the pines and everything. So that’s my favorite area.

Lee Smith [00:45:22] What does it do for you?

Robert Potts [00:45:24] Well, being in an area like the Davis Mountains, where you can basically look around and see it like it looked, you think, 300 years ago generates just a lot of hope because so much of so much of our state, we’ve impacted in ways that it looks very different and and operates very differently. And some of these areas that that still haven’t changed much I think are just kind of important for me spiritually, emotionally. It’s just it’s very regenerative for me.

Lee Smith [00:46:08] One thing that we’ve been doing since we’ve been here is going from the micro to the macro. We’ve been taking shots of little grass heads and small flowers, and then the light would catch the mountains over here, and so we’d shift up and get shots. And how does that ability to go from from the finite to the infinite, how does that speak to your soul?

Robert Potts [00:46:39] Well, it’s just, as I was saying earlier, I think focusing on the specific whether it’s a type of grass or a type of butterfly or a type of bird or a type of tree kind of opens up for me the bigger, because once you start to see see the individuals, then you start to see how the bigger is put together. And so that’s what’s really fun here is where you you still have so much diversity and you still have such a wonderfully functioning landscape that you can see how the two interrelate and you can see if things are maybe a little bit askew, maybe why they’re askew. And you can take some management action to maybe get it back to a little bit more the way you want it to be, whether it’s, you know, reducing some trees as they’ve done out here so that so that you have better water flow and better fire management. There’s just it’s just understanding the the minute helps you understand the landscape.

Lee Smith [00:47:43] And then the sun goes down. And a whole other space opens up and can stop you dead in your tracks.

Robert Potts [00:47:54] Right.

Lee Smith [00:47:55] What’s that like?

Robert Potts [00:47:56] Well, the McDonald Observatory is here. And the reason the McDonald Observatory is here is because the dark skies are just so spectacular. And one reason why this area has been relatively undeveloped is because it’s so far from the cities and so far. And so we have less light pollution. And you can walk outside and, “Well, there’s the Milky Way.” I mean, like, I haven’t seen the Milky Way since I was since I was a child.

Robert Potts [00:48:26] I mean, I grew up, grew up I mentioned earlier I grew up in Corsicana, and I was fortunate in that my house was on the edge of town. And I grew up across the street from a big ranch. And so I grew up seeing the night sky from my front yard.

Robert Potts [00:48:42] And I had lost that till I came back out here. And then you go, “Oh. Wow. You can see the Milky Way.” You can see all these different stars. You can notice when the moon is different and, you know, be in tune with where it is and its cycles. And so that that’s the sky is spectacular.

Lee Smith [00:49:04] How does that inform your sense of self?

Robert Potts [00:49:07] Well, it informs my sense of self in that it reminds me how small I am. It used to bother me a little bit. You know, I’d think, “I just can’t think about that stuff. I mean, I got to think about what’s here because that stuff is just so immense.” And of course, the new telescopes are even making it even clearer how immense it is.

Robert Potts [00:49:32] And so but as I’ve aged, I think that’s actually, I think it’s actually been really kind of comforting almost just to think, “Okay, we’re just little little blips.”

Lee Smith [00:49:49] OK. I’ve been deviating around. We’re back to McDonald Observatory. You covered that. We did. Oh, let’s, let’s pop out to East Texas. Sandylands Sanctuary.

Robert Potts [00:50:04] Yes.

Lee Smith [00:50:05] What is that and how does it fit in to the Nature Conservancy?

Robert Potts [00:50:09] Well, Sandylands, the Roy Larsen Sandylands Sanctuary, was given to the Nature Conservancy in the ’70s, ’77 maybe, certainly long before I started at the Conservancy. And it was part of the Big Thicket project.

Robert Potts [00:50:25] You know, there had been there had been a movement for a long time to create a Big Thicket preserve. And the Big Thicket is, you know, a very, very biologically diverse and ecologically important area. And that was created back probably in the ’80s. But this was an early kind of step in that preserve system.

Robert Potts [00:50:51] And it was given by what was then, I think Temple-Eastex was the name of the company, Temple-Inland it became. And Arthur Temple was, was the head of that. And so they gave that to the Nature Conservancy. And it was it’s along Village Creek, it’s a beautiful creek, great place to canoe through, probably a little over 2000 acres, significant in and of itself.

Robert Potts [00:51:20] And but again, kind of back to the how do you help the landscape, needing to kind of look at this more at a landscape level.

Robert Potts [00:51:30] In ’95, I believe, they then, with Glen Chancellor, who was vice president of the forest. They donated an easement on all of their land around Sandyland. So another 2900 acres, I think it was. So we ended up with a 5000-acre preserve there.

Robert Potts [00:51:49] And it’s open to the public. It’s a great place to go see what East Texas, and really much of the Southeast looked like, before it was all timbered, because it was mostly longleaf pine forest. And longleaf pine forests don’t look anything like a timber plantation where the trees are planted in rows and pretty close together.

Robert Potts [00:52:11] Longleaf pine is spread out. You’ve got a lot of grass. It’s kind of more of a savanna almost look than a forest.

Robert Potts [00:52:19] And it’s maintained by fire. They, longleaf pines, are really kind of adapted to and in fact encourage fire and need fire in order to regenerate. So it’s a fire-maintained system and there’s not really very much of that left in the southeast and certainly in east Texas.

Robert Potts [00:52:36] And so we’ve got this this preserve there that’s wonderful for the creek and the wetlands on it. But it’s also really special for Texans to go out and see what this country looked like, what this country looked like when, you know, our ancestors came here or before the Europeans came here and see how beautiful it was and how different it was.

Robert Potts [00:53:04] And Sandylands is, is a wonderful example of the longleaf pine forest.

Robert Potts [00:53:09] And you not only have just the overstory and the way that the landscape fits together, but then you again, you kind of get down to some of the some of the trailing phlox and some of these plants that only really live in, in longleaf pine savanna type forests that are maintained by fire. And you can see that there.

Robert Potts [00:53:27] So one of the wonderful things about doing conservation work in Texas is you can go from these longleaf pine forests in East Texas out to the deserts of West Texas, down to, you know, the thornscrub of of southern Texas that’s really more like Mexico, to the Great Plains that with the, you know, the bison across north Texas to the Panhandle.

Robert Potts [00:53:50] It’s just and not to mention the Hill Country, which is totally contained within Texas and its own unique ecosystem. We’ve got so much.

Robert Potts [00:53:58] And the Gulf Coast.

Robert Potts [00:54:00] You’ve got so many different types of ecological systems to enjoy as a Texan. It’s really special, and it’s really special for the Nature Conservancy to be able to work in all of them.

Lee Smith [00:54:13] Well, and you’ve talked a lot about the ecological diversity and the biodiversity and all that stuff, but you mentioned with Sandyland, the cultural significance of people being able to experience that part, and that’s true of all these other places.

Robert Potts [00:54:30] That’s right. You know, one of the things, if you drive around the country that overwhelms you is you’ll go into certain you know, you’ll go into a town and it looks like every other town you’ve ever been in. I mean, you know, the same restaurants, the same stores, you know, kind of the same general layout.

Robert Potts [00:54:48] And so you kind of lose the regional flavor. I mean, you really have to almost work to when you’re traveling these days to find places that you can kind of get a sense of the heritage or the regional flavor of the area because so much of our country, and this is particularly true in Texas, looks like everywhere else. And so you kind of lose your moorings if you if you don’t know where you come from.

Robert Potts [00:55:17] And what these places around the state that still have some of the heritage, both natural and cultural heritage associated with them, give us a chance to kind of reconnect with where we came from and have a little better sense of who we are and where we need to go.

Lee Smith [00:55:42] Is that why the Nature Conservancy has made several of these places available to the public?

Robert Potts [00:55:48] Well, the Conservancy has some of them that are, some of them that are, that can be managed in a way that they’re open to the public, are open to the public. Others, you know, they have regular field trips or regular camping sessions, open weekends because it’s important for people to get out and see these places and just know that they’re there and know that they’re there.

Lee Smith [00:56:14] You spoke of Mr. Temple. You spoke of Mr. Chancellor. Who is Roy E. Larsen? There’s Roy E. Larsen in front of Sandylands?

Robert Potts [00:56:21] My understanding, again, this was done in ’77, I think, and, you know, well before I was at TNC. But my understanding was he was a friend of Mr. Temple’s. And so Mr. Temple donated it and wanted it named after his friend.

Lee Smith [00:56:37] That’s cool. And we’ve done the Edwards Aquifer Authority, jumped out there. So what are you up to now? What are you doing now?

Robert Potts [00:56:51] I’m the president of the Dixon Water Foundation. When I left the Edwards Aquifer Authority, which I really enjoyed doing. But I had the opportunity to really go kind of help start this foundation that was going to be focused on conservation and water conservation. And that was just an opportunity that was that was very intriguing to me.

Robert Potts [00:57:15] So we, our mission is healthy watersheds through good land management. Mr. Dixon set us up with his will to work on water issues in Texas. And as I’ve already referred to, I think water is going to be the driving force for conservation in Texas. And so it was a really great opportunity to help shape that foundation and how we how we would work. And we worked with the board and we developed a focus on watershed health.

Robert Potts [00:57:42] There are a lot of ways you could approach water in Texas. You could work on water policy, you could work. We felt a lot of folks were working on water policy.

Robert Potts [00:57:51] You could work on water efficiency, you know, more efficient irrigation and plumbing and that. A lot of folks were working on that.

Robert Potts [00:57:57] But we didn’t feel like there was enough attention on the health of our creeks and rivers and then the way that land is managed in a way that promotes that health because most of our creeks and rivers have been degraded. They’ve incised. They’ve, you know, silted, they’ve been degraded.

Robert Potts [00:58:13] And it was for, we didn’t really understand how they worked until recently. A good understanding of river systems and aquatic systems has really advanced a lot in the last 20, 25 years. So we decided to focus on that.

Robert Potts [00:58:28] In Texas, most land is managed in rangeland and livestock, so we decided to say, “Okay, how can we improve range management in a way that supports the health of the watershed, supports the health of the ecology?” Because you can’t just focus on the creek, you’ve got to look at the whole watershed. They, they, they interact.

Robert Potts [00:58:47] So that’s what we’ve been doing for the last 15 or so years is really looking at watershed health, range management, and how the two interact. And so it’s been it’s been fun.

Robert Potts [00:59:01] We’ve been able to to work on kind of a high-intensity, low-duration grazing method that mimics the way that that large herbivores would have grazed this country in the past and kind of look at how that could be more ecologically and economically sustainable.

Robert Potts [00:59:18] When we started this 15, 16 years ago, this was kind of considered kooky stuff, this grazing system. Now, it’s kind of become cutting edge. I mean, most everybody that’s that’s talking about, you know, innovative grazing, you know, change is talking about this grazing system. So it’s been fun to be a part, a small part, but a part of that change that’s happening and see it change.

Lee Smith [00:59:46] And folks who have been receptive?

Robert Potts [00:59:50] Increasingly, you know, you don’t change. Ranchers don’t change real rapidly. I mean, because if it’s worked for you in the past…

Robert Potts [00:59:59] But increasingly with with a more erratic climate, it’s almost hard for me to see how you’re going to make it in ranching if you’re not doing this adaptive multi-paddock grazing. I think it’s actually going to be, I think it already was, but I think it becomes increasingly clear that this is the way that if you’re going to run a ranch and be profitable, this is going to be the way that’s going to be the best way for you to go.

Lee Smith [01:00:23] Are you familiar with Jane Koger in Kansas, in the Flint Hills of Kansas?

Robert Potts [01:00:28] I’ve heard the name, but I don’t know.

Lee Smith [01:00:29] She was kind of an innovator in that area.

Robert Potts [01:00:33] Flint Hills is a wonderful, wonderful ecosystem. I love the Flint Hills.

Lee Smith [01:00:39] So as TNC closes in on its millionth acre, how has the Nature Conservancy impacted Texas?

Robert Potts [01:00:48] Well, it would be extremely sad to think what it would be like in Texas if the Nature Conservancy hadn’t been here working. Think about those million acres if they were all under concrete or in some type of state where they’ve lost their essential character. We would have lost a huge part of who we are as Texans, and a huge part of our natural and cultural heritage. So, Texas would be a much, much poorer place if it hadn’t been for the Nature Conservancy and its work, and particularly the work of its partners.

Lee Smith [01:01:41] How do you, what advice would you give to a young person coming into the field of conservation?

Robert Potts [01:01:48] Well, I talk to a lot of young people. I get calls a lot of times from young people or reference people that are interested in conservation.

Robert Potts [01:01:58] And I basically advise them to figure out some way or another to get their foot in the door and doing it and just start doing it, whether it’s as a volunteer or an entry-level job. That’s how I started. I was an entry-level job at the Nature Conservancy.

Robert Potts [01:02:16] And then once you’re in it, then you can kind of find out what your niche is and find out where exactly you have the greatest joy and the greatest productivity in conservation. But getting involved with it and not just thinking about it I think is the important step.

Robert Potts [01:02:36] And now, you know, as opposed to 25 years ago or 30 years ago, there are lots of options. There are a whole lot more organizations.

Robert Potts [01:02:45] You know, 30 years ago when I started at the Nature Conservancy, the Nature Conservancy was really the only nonprofit organization in the state that was working on this type of stuff that had staff.

Robert Potts [01:03:01] Everything else, there were some other organizations, but they were primarily volunteer organizations.

Robert Potts [01:03:06] So, but so now there are more options. It probably makes it a little bit harder in some ways, but it makes it easier in other ways.

Lee Smith [01:03:16] And what is your outlook on the future of conservation?

Robert Potts [01:03:20] Well, I think the I think the thing that gives me the most hope in conservation is some of the things I’m working on now with with compatible grazing systems and how we can use cattle as a tool to improve the ecological health and the economic health of an area and a landowner. Looking for those types of solutions in a world with approaching 10 billion people, I think it’s absolutely essential.

Robert Potts [01:03:57] Preserves will continue to play a role as kind of a core area, as we’ve talked about. But the future of conservation is going to be figuring out how people are integrated into that in a way that works with nature as opposed to kind of our mindset had been having to work against nature, which is understandable.

Robert Potts [01:04:20] I mean, for for millennia we were always basically on the edge of survival and kind of having to fight it. But now we’re at the point, and past the point, that we’ve got to be figuring out how to work with nature for our own survival. It’s no longer, you know, us versus nature to survive. It’s us with nature to survive.

Robert Potts [01:04:41] And so the innovative ideas that I read about in hear about are where people are trying to figure out how we integrate people and nature and and have people work in natural systems in a natural way, in a way that reinforces the natural systems, is what gives me hope.

Robert Potts [01:05:01] And I have the privilege of getting to do that from the grazing and watershed management aspect right now. But there are lots of other ways of working on it in farming and all sorts of all sorts of things. So that’s where I see the hope is and that’s where I see the future is.

Robert Potts [01:05:19] The Nature Conservancy brings an adaptability to solving conservation problems that I think is really unique because it is private. It doesn’t have some of the restrictions that a government agency would have because it is very, very mission-focused on its conservation goals. It has tended to look at all sorts of different ways to to to solve, to solve the problem, whether it’s land acquisition or, you know, partnerships or just all sorts of different things.

Robert Potts [01:05:59] And so what the Nature Conservancy brings to the conservation movement that I think is essential is its adaptability and its willingness to work with the market system to achieve as much as can be achieved, recognizing that sometimes you don’t get the whole loaf. Sometimes you only get half a loaf.

Robert Potts [01:06:19] And being willing to to to say, “Okay, we’ll take a half a loaf as opposed to nothing,” and to do what it takes to achieve what can be achieved. You know, they say politics is the art of the possible. The Nature Conservancy has done a good job of achieving for conservation the possible. It has, it has mastered the art of the possible.

Lee Smith [01:06:48] Well. And also as it has evolved in Texas, it has credibility. And that that that level of trust may not have been there back in 1971. And so how critical is is the credibility of the Nature Conservancy in its work?

Robert Potts [01:07:14] For the Nature Conservancy, you know, it’s been criticized from time to time, and it’s been important that we’ve done what we’ve said we were going to do. And the Davis Mountains is a great example of that.

Lee Smith [01:07:25] When we first started looking at this project, there were signs out here saying, “Private Property, yes. The Nature Conservancy, No.”.

Robert Potts [01:07:32] And we started this project, as I was telling you about earlier, we made the decision, we’re not going to do this in partnership with some of our public entities, even though we work with them in other contexts where it is appropriate. That’s not going to be appropriate in this particular setting.

Robert Potts [01:07:48] And we said that and these people said, “I don’t believe you.” I said, “Watch us.”

Robert Potts [01:07:53] And so here we are 25 years later, and we’ve we’ve done what we said we were going to do.

Robert Potts [01:08:00] Another thing that was controversial was we were we had a special exemption from property taxes early in the early days, had gotten put in the state, the state law that we were exempt from for property taxes.

Robert Potts [01:08:15] And a number of communities said, “Well, you’re taking land off the tax rolls. And so that’s not that’s not helpful.”

Robert Potts [01:08:23] And so we made the decision to to pay taxes, you know, make payments in lieu of taxes at the rate that we would pay if we were, you know, a rural landowner. And we did that and we said we’re going to do that.

Robert Potts [01:08:37] And that addressed, I mean, we did that early on after I became state director, and that took care of so much of that negative publicity because we were paying our fair share and we could be like any other member of the community in doing that.

Robert Potts [01:08:55] So being able to follow through and do what you say you’re going to do and and let your record speak for itself is is something that is built over long, long periods of time.

Robert Potts [01:09:10] And I’m proud that I have been a part of that. But it’s been so many, many other people working at it for so long that’s made that happen.